Why did Beric Dondarrion revive Catelyn?

[Podrick + Arya = Win]

I feel as if Beric was one of the most interesting characters in the series. And one of the ones who shouldn't have been killed off yet.

For instance, Oberyn might well be my favorite character in the series. But, he came, he shined, he died. It made sense and I certainly don't feel like his death was a waste - it was one of the most epic scenes in the series, and very climactic. Likewise there's other characters who have died that I liked and enjoyed, but with them I didn't have any real moment of saying "I think Martin made a legit mistake with this death".

Beric's off-screen death was just...what? And we don't even hear about it until the next book. It just seemed like this character of Beric, the handsome young hopeful naive lordling who becomes this undead disgusting revenant, and who repeatedly fails miserably at killing Gregor yet keeps trying while leading a very strange yet noble gang, was a very original and interesting character. Someone who really should have been given more screen time. I was very surprised when I read that Beric had died in exchange for Catelyn (and we probably won't ever find out what the hell Beric's expectations even were for that kiss).

This is well said, I think you captured my feelings as well.

Beric was definitely more effective as a leader of the Brotherhood than Uncat. He was absolutely perfect for that role. I think Uncat would be better off as an advisor figure, who lurks in the shadows, and that's what I figured she'd be at the end of Storm of Swords. This insane replacement for Beric is not what seems to suit the best interests of the story, IMO.

This whole episode with Beric and Oberyn dying and unCat makes me roll my eyes whenever I think about ASoIaF. It's almost like Martin in his "Story writes itself" mode is influenced by the most negative feelings and writes the worst possible outcome in almost every event.

Thankfully, Feast jarred me out of the story so much, that I don't take it so seriously anymore.

[Asha—Not Yara!]

I definitely feel in the minority on this one but I LOVE the Lady Stoneheart storyline. I am thoroughly enjoying having someone reap vengeance on behalf of the Starks against the Freys, and I'm also excited as it seems as though they're doing covert gorilla tactics to weaken the forces holding Riverrun. I also hope maybe Catelyn can learn that some of her children are still alive and are safe, so when she finally dies for good she can do it with a bit more peace (I know probably wishful thinking on my part).

As for why Beric did it, I'm not sure if he realized that giving her the kiss would mean he would be gone. He probably wanted to raise her so he could fulfill his promise to Arya and perhaps learn some valuable strategic information about Riverrun from her. The two of them could have worked together. It's a shame it didn't happen that way, but take Beric out of the picture and it complicates things within the BwB, so I suspect that's why Martin had it turned out the way it did.

[Maester Joergensen]

Reading this thread I think I can se excactly why the BwB split into two factions. One following Lady stoneheart and one following Thoros.

The members of the brotherhood are just as divided on the subject as the members of this board.

[Errant Bard]

Reading this thread I think I can se excactly why the BwB split into two factions. One following Lady stoneheart and one following Thoros.

Thoros stayed with Catelyn, as did Lem, Gendry, Harwin, Jack-be-lucky, and Tom o' seven, among others.

Maybe you mean Edric Dayne?

[Ferrous]

Thoros stayed with Catelyn, as did Lem, Gendry, Harwin, Jack-be-lucky, and Tom o' seven, among others.

Maybe you mean Edric Dayne?

Edric is returning Berric's body to his home

[Errant Bard]

Edric is returning Berric's body to his home

If you say so. But what's the relevance of this speculation, in answer to an exchange about who stayed with Catelyn and who split?

[Lily Rivers]

Make sure to take pictures!

Certainly! This is an easy one for my escort as well with cape, wolf's head, and horrible stitches. Hoping to hook up with some show/book fans for group costuming.

[Maester Joergensen]

Thoros stayed with Catelyn, as did Lem, Gendry, Harwin, Jack-be-lucky, and Tom o' seven, among others.

Maybe you mean Edric Dayne?

You are propably right. What I remember was that the BwB had split up into fctions. The ones who wanted to follow cat and the ones who didn´t. Someone who has read those chapters recently can propably fill us in on the details. What I think was interesting in this thread where that the things people where conflicted about regarding the Cat/Beric situation, must have left tpe members of the BwB having just as many different opions on the subject.

People who thought that Beic meant to transfer the leadership from Beric to cat.

People who thought Rh´lor transfered the leadership from Beric to cat.

People who thought that Cat had a good cause an wanted to punish the Freys.

People who thought they should choose a more sensible leader like Thoros or Edric.

People who thought that Beric meant just meant to give Cat last rights and see her recerrection as a bizar accident that should´t have happened.

Or that Cats desire for revenge against the Freys didn´t follow there own purpose for joining which where to help the smallfolk.

Or al kinds of opions in between.

I imagine heated arguments leading to the split. With Thoros just standing in the background shaking his head in remorse.

[Errant Bard]

You are propably right. What I remember was that the BwB had split up into factions. The ones who wanted to follow cat and the ones who didn´t. Someone who has read those chapters recently can propably fill us in on the details.

There's no detail, as even the split in the BwB is all speculation except for the AFFC appendix, and appendixes are not necessarily reliable.

[Ironwill]

It is not the choice of Beric or Thoros who gets brought back, but R'hllor.

Beric only kept coming back because R'hllor willed it, and R'hllor decided that he did not need Beric any more but now needed Catelyn.

I had always wondered if Beric could have been revived more than seven times. It would have been a strong mark for the rather overlooked-when-it-comes-to-divine-intervention Seven if Beric stopped functioning at their chosen number. Maybe if Uncat is the seventh resurrection it will be the last one in that particular cycle.

All Cat did while she was alive was brood and worry and feel sorry for herself. What she's doing now doesn't seem to be any different (I realize she obviously has a much larger role than was shown the last book but still....)

All Cat did was try to keep her family safe. She did not do everything right, I mean she messed up a ton, but that was her primary motivation. Without her family, since as far as she knew all were dead or captive at the time of her death, all she has left is vengeance. It is not pretty but her primary motivation is still her family, as befitting her house words.

I also hope maybe Catelyn can learn that some of her children are still alive and are safe, so when she finally dies for good she can do it with a bit more peace (I know probably wishful thinking on my part).

I really want to see what will happen when she realizes Bran is still alive. Providing any characters survive long enough for a reunion.

You are propably right. What I remember was that the BwB had split up into factions.

The Brotherhood always seemed to be fairly independent cells rather than a faction. Those under Berric who did not like Uncat could split off, and the other cells (Mad Hunts Man ect.) could have nothing to do with Her as they choose. Though in terms of rank her rites are currently dominate overall it seems.

[Fatmo]

Forgive me, I'm pretty new to the forum here, but I think I might remember something that I have not seen in any threads about Beric:

I remember being bummed out when Brienne ran into Thoros and was told that Dondarrion is really gone. However, I could swear I remember at some point much later (probably somewhere in ADWD) someone hinting at the fact that the Lightning Lord may be back raiding somewhere. I know it's unlikely, but I seem to remember thinking that whatever the source was might be credible.

One of the great parts of this series is the fact that communication is so bad, it is very hard to tell if what someone says is true or not because of all the rumors going around. A character may actually think he is telling the truth but in fact he may not be. Of course people also tell lies or half truths which can often be misinterpreted by both other characters and us, the readers.

Perhaps Thoros really thought Beric was dead but in fact he has somehow been resurrected once again? I don't see that as being so far fetched considering Beric's previous history of this very thing. Another possibility might be that Beric and Thoros had some sort of a falling out (possibly over giving the kiss to Cat?) and parted ways and when he talked about Beric being dead perhaps he was using a metaphor or something.

When Brienne had that conversation with Thoros, was that the only time we actually hear from a close source that Beric is dead?

I realize this is pretty far fetched, but I don't see it as being half as ridiculous as some other theories I have seen around here.

[Orlov]

This whole episode with Beric and Oberyn dying and unCat makes me roll my eyes whenever I think about ASoIaF. It's almost like Martin in his "Story writes itself" mode is influenced by the most negative feelings and writes the worst possible outcome in almost every event.

Thankfully, Feast jarred me out of the story so much, that I don't take it so seriously anymore.

Why is that?

[Babeldygob]

I should read the book again, but is it possible that he is not dead, but still undead or maybe alive again. Is there proof that he is dead? I liked him so much.

[Rhaegar Stark]

I definitely feel in the minority on this one but I LOVE the Lady Stoneheart storyline. I am thoroughly enjoying having someone reap vengeance on behalf of the Starks against the Freys, and I'm also excited as it seems as though they're doing covert gorilla tactics to weaken the forces holding Riverrun. I also hope maybe Catelyn can learn that some of her children are still alive and are safe, so when she finally dies for good she can do it with a bit more peace (I know probably wishful thinking on my part).

As for why Beric did it, I'm not sure if he realized that giving her the kiss would mean he would be gone. He probably wanted to raise her so he could fulfill his promise to Arya and perhaps learn some valuable strategic information about Riverrun from her. The two of them could have worked together. It's a shame it didn't happen that way, but take Beric out of the picture and it complicates things within the BwB, so I suspect that's why Martin had it turned out the way it did.

Totally in agreement. We don't even fully know what the plans are for Rivverrun, but I get the feeling that TWOW will give the BWB the justice they deserve. Every Frey deserves to die.

I keep getting this mental image of frail old Walder Frey sitting in the main hall at the Twins when suddenly the BWB bursts on the scene, and the last words he hears is "Catelyn Stark sends her regards." I get goosebumps every time.

[fassreiter]

Whatever his reasons, I just realized how truly pissed I still am at GRRM for doing that, and so many years after I first read it. Just pissed. I really like Catelyn, liked her all the way to the Red Wedding and it was her death that made it so hard to read in my opinion. But the UnCat-move was silly and I don't understand why Beric had to be killed off for that, and off screen, too. All my favourite characters are dropping like flies. Gah.

[Ororo727 Jon Snow Fangirl]

It is not the choice of Beric or Thoros who gets brought back, but R'hllor.

Beric only kept coming back because R'hllor willed it, and R'hllor decided that he did not need Beric any more but now needed Catelyn.

Thoro's brought Beric back by accident and kept reviving him in order to continue the BWB mission. He brought Catelyn back but is unhappy with her leadership of the BWB, The God's are only valid to to people who believe in them and have no bearing in what happens or doesn't happen.

[House Martell]

I hate unnecessarily long posts so here's my attempt at brevity:

1. With Gregor dead, and Beric exhausted (physically & mentally) he decided his mission was over. We have to assume that without Thoros performing the ceremony, all Beric could do was "give his kiss" to someone else (so he knew it was his end).
   
2. With no purpose or desire himself, Beric decided Cat deserved a 2nd chance (whether he thought vengeance or simply to reunite with her daughters, who knows)
   
3. From a plot perspective it gives Edric Dayne a chance to branch off and head south and get caught up in some Dorne/YG business (Edric is too great a character to simply be Dondarion's squire for the whole series).
   

[Queen Cersei I]


IMHO, and this is perhaps reading much more into the BwB than we are given in actual info, seeing Catelyn dead awakened Beric to the group's twisted motives. The group, by following a long dead (relative to the other pretenders to the throne) king, and almost stubbornly refusing to acknowledge that the political world had gone on without them, was living in a kind of fantasy world. Catelyn's body made Beric realize that. But I could be way off base here.


That’s a fascinating interpretation, I’ve never heard that one before.

Or: Beric realized that they were all in a fantasy land all along, chasing a dream/ ideal of justice that had never existed. (As Sandor pointed out, they are the same as people they go after/ prosecute. And also, the noble king Robert that they claim to be fighting for? Indifferent to justice and the needs of his people at best, as Sandor also pointed out. “If Robert couldn’t drink it or fight it or fuck it he wasn’t interested.” Their noble king.)

Maybe he is a necrophiliac and the revival was an accident.

Hey, it worked for the prince in Snow White. :ack: :shocked:

(Seriously, did you know that in the earlier versions of that story, the prince never tries to kiss Snow white/ wake her up. He just sees her dead body, thinks she’s hot, and then orders his servants to carry her off with them in her glass coffin back to the royal palace. Where he’s going to keep her for his own unspecified purposes…. :uhoh: )

We know Harwin begged him to. We know Beric promised to reunite Arya with her mother. We know he gave her the kiss of life, as it were (after Thoros refused). What we don't know, since up till now no resurrected character has had a POV, is what his motivations or expectations were, though there are interesting speculations.

I wonder if he revived Cat after he learned the mountain was dead. (After all, bringing Gregor Clegane was his original mission.)

Agree. But I think/hope in the next book, unCat will tell the story of what happened.

Yeah… she can’t really speak all that well, though, so that might be all that helpful. (She could rasp out a hoarse “hang them,” but could you really picture her telling them the long, complex story of Beric’s decision to bring her back from the dead, and his precise motivations for doing so?) :leaving:

[True Mortal]

Beric's talk with Thoros (with a weary tone, no less) about having himself resurrected six times has probably taken a lot in him.

[Hear Us Roar]

Because he had made a promise to Arya that he would reunite her with her mother. Plus, he was tired of living.

and maybe some loyalty to Ned who gave him his orders