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The Point-of-View characters


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15 replies to this topic

#1 Scafloc

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 05:35 PM

I think we are doing nicely on the wiki: we currently have 3,620 articles. Almost all characters including minor characters have their own page, most even with references!
Especially with the new option to include copyright pictures I was thinking of going over articles of the main characters. The idea to improve the articles of the main characters by joint effort.

Let's begin with Tyrion (one of the most popular characters). What is the article missing on pictures (of Tyrion of from others), content and so on and so.

We have done this in the past for Jaime Lannister so we can look their for inspiration. But it is not a restriction: if you have other ideas or other examples let's hear them!
Looking for your suggestions!

#2 TMWNN

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 11:51 AM

Especially with the new option to include copyright pictures I was thinking of going over articles of the main characters. The idea to improve the articles of the main characters by joint effort.

Let's begin with Tyrion (one of the most popular characters). What is the article missing on pictures (of Tyrion of from others), content and so on and so.

We have done this in the past for Jaime Lannister so we can look their for inspiration.

Speaking of photos, I wish to again suggest that when possible editors use screenshots to illustrate key points in articles, much as the Harry Potter Wiki (the closest comparison in terms of a lengthy book series that has been more or less faithfully translated to the screen). Look at the article for Hermione Granger, for example.

#3 Scafloc

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 03:00 PM

I agree. The Harry Potter Wiki is one of the wikis I look for inspiration.

So then what are the key point in Tyrion's live?
  • Marrying Tysha
  • Killing his father
What else?

Edited by Scafloc, 25 June 2011 - 03:01 PM.


#4 The Pale Griffin

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 05:24 PM

His facial disfigurement. Becoming Hand. Meeting Shae.

#5 Scafloc

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Posted 28 June 2011 - 09:39 PM

Almost all images of Tyrion I could find are portraits. There is nothing that shows him with Tysha or killing his father. And all portraits seem to be before the Battle of the Blackwater -> thus without the missing nose.
So I had to improvise with the pictures. Nevertheless if somebody knows of better pictures then let's hear it.

Other points: the Harry Potter wiki has for the main characters a number of relationships paragraphs. I think that they take it a bit far see for instance the paragraph describing the relation between Hermione and Luna Lovegood but how about a few. For Tyrion with his father, brother, sister, Tysha and Shae?

#6 TMWNN

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Posted 28 June 2011 - 11:46 PM

Other points: the Harry Potter wiki has for the main characters a number of relationships paragraphs.

I've seen them in other Wikis for fictional universes and I think they can work well as a supplement to the existing chronological text. As you say, only the few most important relationships. A good excuse to use screenshots (e.g., one showing Charles Dance and Peter Dinklage together), too.

#7 Kissed.By.Fire

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 09:54 PM

So I've already said this on the Wiki, but I'm not really feeling the Relationships section on Tyrion's page. I looked into the HP Wiki, and I see what we're aiming for, but right now Tyrion's Relationship section feels more like an editorial than a statement of the facts. Personally I think it would be best to remove the section for now and focus our energy on updating the Wiki with ADwD info and characters. Then once everything is up to speed with the new book adding to existing character pages would be a good idea. I agree that some of them could use some fleshing out.

I think then if we were to do relationships for more of the POV characters, the relationships described should be limited to well-developed relationships. For example with Tyrion, adding a section for Tysha and Shae seems superfluous when they are already explained in their entirety in his history and book summaries (or their own pages). Also relationships between POV and non-POV characters should be written carefully because only one side is represented first hand in the books. We don't really know for sure what the non-POV characters are always thinking.


#8 The Pale Griffin

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Posted 17 August 2011 - 01:55 PM

I agree with KBF. The problem with relationships is that we usually only know one side of the story. Outside of most of the Stark family and the Lannister children, most relationships described in the books of the POV characters are defined only one way. This is only going to get harder to describe since George claims he's going to start cutting POVs.

#9 Scafloc

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Posted 17 August 2011 - 02:41 PM

So I've already said this on the Wiki, but I'm not really feeling the Relationships section on Tyrion's page. I looked into the HP Wiki, and I see what we're aiming for, but right now Tyrion's Relationship section feels more like an editorial than a statement of the facts. Personally I think it would be best to remove the section for now and focus our energy on updating the Wiki with ADwD info and characters. Then once everything is up to speed with the new book adding to existing character pages would be a good idea. I agree that some of them could use some fleshing out.

I think then if we were to do relationships for more of the POV characters, the relationships described should be limited to well-developed relationships. For example with Tyrion, adding a section for Tysha and Shae seems superfluous when they are already explained in their entirety in his history and book summaries (or their own pages). Also relationships between POV and non-POV characters should be written carefully because only one side is represented first hand in the books. We don't really know for sure what the non-POV characters are always thinking.


Currently it does not work very well. And for the Tyrion page it maybe be very hard to accomplish. The problem is that all things that defines the relation between Tyrion and his father and Tyrion and Jaime are such major events that they already told in the regular part of the article. It makes no sense to wait with the Tysha story until the relationships paragraph as this plays a major part in Jaime rescuing Tyrion and Tyrion killing his father.
But for other pages it may work. I had another go at this in the Quentyn Martell article where I added a paragraph describing the relation between Quentyn and his father. I think for this it works. It adds information about Quentyn and his motivations with only one partial repetition.

So allow me 10 days for the Tyrion page. I'd like to try it again.

#10 Scafloc

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 03:09 PM

I made some changes in the Tyrion article. The relation between Tyrion and his family is a bit more fleshed out (dreams of killing each other) but I could not avoid repeating the Tysha story. Not sure if is good enough though.

#11 Kissed.By.Fire

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Posted 04 September 2011 - 02:31 PM

I think the relationships with Tyrion and his family are a good addition to the page, but his relationship with Tysha doesn't need to be part of the section. I'm thinking that his relationship with Shae doesn't really either. I particularly like the addition of a section about his relationship with his uncles, though.

#12 mor2

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Posted 24 September 2011 - 01:30 PM

I think we are doing nicely on the wiki: we currently have 3,620 articles. Almost all characters including minor characters have their own page, most even with references!
Especially with the new option to include copyright pictures I was thinking of going over articles of the main characters. The idea to improve the articles of the main characters by joint effort.

Let's begin with Tyrion (one of the most popular characters). What is the article missing on pictures (of Tyrion of from others), content and so on and so.

We have done this in the past for Jaime Lannister so we can look their for inspiration. But it is not a restriction: if you have other ideas or other examples let's hear them!
Looking for your suggestions!

I think Tyrion article looks good, I have nominated him for Featured article

#13 Kissed.By.Fire

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 01:20 PM

I think Tyrion article looks good, I have nominated him for Featured article

Tyrion's article is on its way to feature status, but it still needs some work. I'm working on beefing up the ASOS summary, but the ADWD summary still needs references. The relationships section needs a lot of editing, particularly in grammar and references. The relationships could also use a more in depth look. For example, with Tyrion and Tywin, coverage of their relationship is not as evenly covered over Tyrion's lifetime as it could be. I think what it would take for the relationships section to be really great would be to go back through the books looking specifically at how Tyrion views people and how those same people view Tyrion. I haven't had time to do that, and won't in the near future, but if someone else has the time I think it would polish off the relationships section nicely. I also think we should take advantage of the TV series and use more screenshots of Tyrion with his relatives for the relationships section (like the Tyrion and Tywin picture), unless there is any art out there depicting it (which I'm sort of doubting).

Once all of that is done I think Tyrion's page will be up to feature status.

#14 mor2

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 09:17 AM

I am Hi Jacking the thread a little with some OT, It's still a collaboration effort only not on an POV article. After contemplating the idea for some time, I have finally split the peripheral Conflict_Beyond_the_Wall from War_of_the_Five_Kings and we have worked on improving and updating related entries to the conflict, the Night's_Watch and it's members, so it's a call to any Night' Watch fans out there, to help out.

more on topic Jon_Snow, could use some help as well.

#15 Knepah

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 11:55 AM

Almost all images of Tyrion I could find are portraits. There is nothing that shows him with Tysha or killing his father. And all portraits seem to be before the Battle of the Blackwater -> thus without the missing nose.
So I had to improvise with the pictures. Nevertheless if somebody knows of better pictures then let's hear it.

Other points: the Harry Potter wiki has for the main characters a number of relationships paragraphs. I think that they take it a bit far see for instance the paragraph describing the relation between Hermione and Luna Lovegood but how about a few. For Tyrion with his father, brother, sister, Tysha and Shae?



and Bronn.

#16 mor2

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 09:49 PM

I really hope we can keep working together on entries, one at a time. in the mean time if anyone looking for some POV to work on here is list to start with poll-who-the-most-loved-person-in-asoiaf.

Btw, I usually jump in to help on recent entries that pop up, dont be afraid to do the same /wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />