snagra Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 I found this posted on Reddit, thought it was a cool idea that I hadn't seen before (although it might have been discussed on here before)."Three treasons you will know...once for blood and once for gold and once for love."Jon Snow.He hears about Ned's death and Robb's war, he rides out to join his brother and he is brought back by his friends. "Blood" is commonly used to describe familial ties in this series, notably by Ned saying that "Jon is my blood."He considers leaving the Night's Watch for Ygritte, and he certainly does break his vows with her. Repeatedly. If you know what I mean. He ends up making the right choice, at tremendous personal cost.Then, finally, Stannis offers him Winterfell and a lordship. Being made a lord, or even a knight, has been used pretty frequently as a reward for sellswords and assassins in the text so far. Jon is tempted, but again accepts his position on the Wall.I don't really have any interpretation about why there's a parallel. I just thought that it was interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millardkillmoore Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Ooh. Very good catch. I think it's also worth noting that Maester Aemon also mentioned being tempted to leave three times. The first time, he was recalled to serve his father. Sort of like Jon being tempted to serve Robb.I don't recall if the details of the second time are expounded upon, but it could have been for a woman like Ygritte. The third time, he was offered the crown. Sort of like Jon being offered Winterfell.There are a lot of parallels you don't always catch at first in this series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tall Tyrion Lannister! Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 that's a good observation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Rhaegar Targaryen Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 I think Aemon's three "temptations" were being offered the crown, the tragedy at Summerhall and finally Robert's Rebellion. You could make the three treasons kind of fit (crown = gold; Robert's Rebellion = blood; Summerhall = somebody he loved), same with Jon, but I do think this is, for once, coincidence, as neither Aemon nor Jon actually betray their oaths (in his heart, Jon stays a brother of the Night's Watch, even with Ygritte) and the warning is explicitely stated to Dany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11th Heaven Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 I wonder if there are three analogous betrayals for Tyrion also, given the Tyrion-Dany-Jon connection, real or imagined. I'm thinking of Shae testifying against him, Jaime complicit in Tysha's rape, and I'm sure there are others. I'm not sure which of the three (love/gold/blood) they would correspond to though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wik Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Most people feel like Jorah was Dany's betrayal of love, correct? Is there a tentative theory that suggests potential for what all 3 are for her? Or do people believe more than just one has happened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bumble Bee Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Neh I think Jorah was the gold part of Dany betrayal prophecy. He did it so he could return home and regain his inheritance hence the betrayal for gold I guess. I believe the betrayal for love is yet to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King_In_The_North Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Could be that she wasn't betrayed even once yet. "Three treasons WILL you know". In the future tense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolorous Edson Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Could be that she wasn't betrayed even once yet. "Three treasons WILL you know". In the future tense.I have wondered about that myself, especially since Dany herself has been operating under the assumption that the first treason has already taken place and it seems like a good twist for GRRM to throw in the extra treason based on the future tense of the fortune-telling. However, it makes more sense to me to take the "blood" treason as done, because of the reference to the Undying Ones being afloat in time, and the lifespans of normal people seem as but a fleeting bit of chaff in the wind (or whatever the quote was - no books with me.) This is a section (in Storm, right?) that I'll definitely be rereading after Dance comes out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oberyn42 Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 I personally think that because Dany keeps referencing that she is almost positive that MMD was the treason for blood and now Jorah was a treason of gold and now she is just looking out for the treason of love (funny that everyone thinks she is going to get courted hard in ADwD) but I still think that it would fit GRRM style for her to be completely wrong and for only one, or maybe none, of there three prophecies to have come to fruition just yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wik Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Could be that she wasn't betrayed even once yet. "Three treasons WILL you know". In the future tense.I agree. I had assumed most thought Jorah to be one of the betrayals but I didn't think what he did was nearly as serious as what the prophecy or whatever you would call it, led us to believe. My next question is, are there any speculations/theories that have been posted here in regards to the potential people who do the betraying? I could see Euron, the bastard Waters, the Golden Company all being potential. Which particular betrayal though, will be much more hard to nail down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixi Penrose Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 I agree with Oberyn, the treason of Jorah didn't seem to be bad enough to count as one of the three. i mean, of course it was sad for Dany tolose a close friend, but I think when these treasons appear, it will be much more devastating for her:-( I personally think that because Dany keeps referencing that she is almost positive that MMD was the treason for blood and now Jorah was a treason of gold and now she is just looking out for the treason of love (funny that everyone thinks she is going to get courted hard in ADwD) but I still think that it would fit GRRM style for her to be completely wrong and for only one, or maybe none, of there three prophecies to have come to fruition just yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Bronn Stokeworth Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Most people feel like Jorah was Dany's betrayal of love, correct? Is there a tentative theory that suggests potential for what all 3 are for her? Or do people believe more than just one has happened?I think the only one that would have happened so far is MMD and blood.Also, I think Dany (and many readers) are getting the betrayal for love wrong. My guess it will not be some who she is in a romance with. It will be someone she trusts that loves another person (or possibly a group).What I mean is let's say it is Tyrion for example:Tyrion and Dany will not have a romantic relationship.Tyrion will somehow discover he can reunite with Tasha if he betrays Dany. So, he does.((I am not saying it will be Tyrion. I'm just using this as an example.))Could be that she wasn't betrayed even once yet. "Three treasons WILL you know". In the future tense.That is quite possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brewmaster Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Could be that she wasn't betrayed even once yet. "Three treasons WILL you know". In the future tense.Well, the fact that they say "will you know", if they are speaking English properly actually suggests otherwise.If they hadn't happened yet, they would have to say something like "will come to be" or "will you see" or some such. But, barring memory loss, you always know what happened in the past, so if she had been betrayed once before the prophecy, and then 3 times post prophecy, she would "know" 4 betrayals. She can't un-know 1 of them.Of course, that could be a faulty assumption on my part that they are speaking English properly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadence Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Highly unlikely that the betrayal for gold has happened. It would be shocking if Jorah was actually one of the betrayals - that seems to be a clear case of the character, Dany, misinterpreting a prophecy.What I mean is let's say it is Tyrion for example:Tyrion and Dany will not have a romantic relationship.Tyrion will somehow discover he can reunite with Tasha if he betrays Dany. So, he does.I've theorized that Tyrion will eventually betray Dany out of love for Jaime. I've heard others espouse this notion as well. I think the most popular choices for the betrayal for love are Tyrion and Jon. I myself lean towards Tyrion siding with his family in the end, despite everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadence Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 It's possible they meant "you will know (across your entire life)" with the including her past thing being implied.Considering the context and the other visions that had events from the past, I think it highly probable that things from the past count as well. Trying to nitpick the grammar is likely futile. So I don't the tense of "will" is literally significant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faranya Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Highly unlikely that the betrayal for gold has happened. It would be shocking if Jorah was actually one of the betrayals - that seems to be a clear case of the character, Dany, misinterpreting a prophecy.But Jorah was literally betraying her in exchange for gold, as well as for the promise of a pardon. He was spying on her for King Robert all throughout the Dothraki Sea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouKnowNothingJonSnow Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Yeah, Dany's been operating under the assumption that:1) MMD was the betrayal for blood2) Jorah could work for love (his love of his homeland) or for gold, but if there is an order (and it seems there is), then gold should be next. And Jorah was getting paid.So love would be last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brienne the Beauty Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 I think the betrayal for blood was Viserys, her blood relative, when he threatened her child. Gold was Jorah. The betrayal for love will no doubt happen in the future. It could even be Jorah again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfrenchy Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Could be that she wasn't betrayed even once yet. "Three treasons WILL you know". In the future tense.ive thought the same whenever her POV thinks up the betrayals. sure she's had some rough spots, but overall she seems to have had it easy compared to other characters, and the thoughts of her thinking she already experienced those betrayals just seemed like a good way to really give it to her when they really do happeni think something really bad is going to happen to her dear dragons, and then something else just as painful when she reaches or about to reach westeros. how this equals to blood love or gold is another matter, but i guess what im saying is that she's had it too easy so far and its time for danny to experience a little crash and burn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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