35 replies to this topic

[Rhaegarnomics]

I feel that dule shows little fingers humanity perfectly and I feel that really when you look at how he grew up and were he came from he really was more or less I feel a hopeless romantic at first but because were he came from and realizeing after that fight he would never get what he wanted trying to be a archtype chracter in a song he became jilted and that dule was really him loseing his innacent side so now it really makes more sense complety how he came to be the man he is and shows alot of insight into him.

[Queen Horseface]

I agree. For awhile I convinced myself that Littlefinger was jut obsessed (seeing her as an item) with Catelyn, not in love. Then I thought about the duel. It seems to be an act of passion, taking on the big tough lord's heir of a Great House. So pretty much put me back in a limbo about his true emotions currently.

P.S. Check your spelling. Firefox has an auto spell checker.

[Bumble Bee]

I disagree. It may have appeared as an act of love but knowing what we know now I believe it was out of ambition that he wanted to marry Catelyn Tully. A lot of what he is doing now is out of revenge on both families for spurning him.

[Kaitscralt]

Wasn't he like twelve? I don't think his actions in the dual can really be attributed to true love.

[Queen Horseface]

Bumble Bee, on 06 July 2011 - 05:10 PM, said:

I disagree. It may have appeared as an act of love but knowing what we know now I believe it was out of ambition that he wanted to marry Catelyn Tully. A lot of what he is doing now is out of revenge on both families for spurning him.

Yeah, but if was really being calculating wouldn't he have thought of a better way to get rid of Brandon and his brothers? I mean challenging a guy that's probably gonna kick your ass is not a way to get the girl.

@Kait
He was? Oh i didn't remember his age. Thought he was older.

Edited by Ned's Phalanges, 11 July 2011 - 03:11 PM.

[Kaitscralt]

I could be wrong on his age, but I thought it was pretty young, under 15.

[Kadence]

Yes, that was no doubt a turning point for his character which shaped his personality from then on.

Ned, on 06 July 2011 - 05:15 PM, said:

Yeah, but if was really being calculating wouldn't he have thought of a better way to get rid of Brandon and his brothers? I mean challenging a guy that's probably gonna kick your ass is not a way to get the girl.

@Kait
He was? Oh i didn't remember his age. Thought he was older. I'm not saying it's true love though. Sometimes you fall out of love.

Exactly, if it was an act of ambition he would never have done it. Challenging Brandon Stark was nuts and no one thought he had a chance. Clearly he was just deluded and probably thought he'd win because of true love, or just the boundless optimism of youth. There was definitely nothing 'calculated' about getting his ass predictably whupped by Brandon Stark, and being utterly humiliated in front of everyone he grew up with.

And yeah you can fall in love at almost any age (I think he was a teenager). I think when he got older it was much less of an innocent thing and more a selfish desire or lust, but as a kid he had known Catelyn much of his life so him actually falling in love with her as a young boy is easy to believe. It wasn't like he had known her 5 minutes - he'd known her for years.

[Eustace Black]

Littlefinger was most like Sansa when he was younger, head in the clouds thinking life was like the songs, then Brandon gives him a nice cut from belly to neck and all that romanticism died. I can't quite recall exactly what he said to Sansa, but he said she'll know life isn't a song, to her horror and then her father gets beheaded.

[the andorran]

Littlefinger had an infatuation with Catelyn he never grew out of. Did he love her? He certainly knew her well enough to have developed strong feelings for her, and that's understandable. Personally, I think that the debate shouldn't be whether Littlefinger loved Cat or just saw her as a prize, but when his feelings for her changed. To my eye, I think that, as a boy, Littlefinger did have strong feelings for Catelyn -- whether you'd call them love or lust or infatuation, he did something incredibly stupid and un-Littlefingerish in challenging Brandon. However, by the present, Catelyn has come to represent everything denied him by the Great Houses. Getting a Tully woman is basically just a huge middle finger to them.

However, I do think that the duel with Brandon Stark was the defining moment in Littlefinger's life. It seems as though he went under quite the change afterwards, where he abandoned the romanticism and passion that caused him to challenge Brandon, and became the man we knew today.

Littlefinger is a twisted little man, and that's why I love him. I won't lie.

Edited by corporatecake, 06 July 2011 - 08:29 PM.

[Todd Sand bastard of AZ]

Ned, on 06 July 2011 - 05:07 PM, said:

I agree. For awhile I convinced myself that Littlefinger was jut obsessed (seeing her as an item) with Catelyn, not in love. Then I thought about the duel. It seems to be an act of passion, taking on the big tough lord's heir of a Great House. So pretty much put me back in a limbo about his true emotions currently.

P.S. Check your spelling. Firefox has an auto spell checker.

You understood everything he said, given your response. Why should he check his spelling? There is no rule against misspelling and sub par grammar in this place, that I'm aware of.

[Jeejee]

It definitely shows another side to his character.

This duel actually makes me want to know more about Brandon. Did he love Cat, or was he just marrying her out of duty? We know he was the wildest (had the most "wolf blood") of all the Stark kids - which much be pretty wild, when you consider that he was up against Lyanna.

[Queen Horseface]

Todd Sand bastard of AZ, on 06 July 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

You understood everything he said, given your response. Why should he check his spelling? There is no rule against misspelling and sub par grammar in this place, that I'm aware of.

I was just trying to help no need to be snarky.

[LadyBirdJohnson]

I think Littlefinger really loves Cat. I think he still does. He may not of stayed by Ned or confessed his own part in Lord Arryn's death/other crimes ( but would you). He walked away from Ned at the end but I do believe he was trying to help Ned in his own way. Littlefinger is a survive and thrive kind of guy, of course he is going to CYA himself before going all Martyr. Considering his feelings for Cat, I assume that helping Ned Stark was one of the last things he wanted to do. He tried to live up to the promise he made Cat but in the end Ned was interested in doing the right thing versus what was going to save his own neck.

On a different note I would love to see the letter that Petyr wrote to Cat after Brandon died before she married Ned. I have the feeling that it would have told us what Petyr really wants.

[RAAM]

as a young boy, it seemed like he had some strong feelings for cat, but then he got his ass kicked, this, and the realization that he'll never marry cat because of their births, made him the LF we all know and love(well, ive actually met people who have hated him, but whatever)

also, LF strait out told ned to not trust anyone, including LF, himself, neds just a stupid, if honorable, retard, LF would help ned so long as it didnt interfere with LFs ambition

[Duskfire]

RAAM, on 09 July 2011 - 03:49 AM, said:

as a young boy, it seemed like he had some strong feelings for cat, but then he got his ass kicked, this, and the realization that he'll never marry cat because of their births, made him the LF we all know and love(well, ive actually met people who have hated him, but whatever)

also, LF strait out told ned to not trust anyone, including LF, himself, neds just a stupid, if honorable, retard, LF would help ned so long as it didnt interfere with LFs ambition

Nah, I think Ned was doomed as soon as he arrived in Kings Landing. LF was always planning his death, its just a matter of when and where and how. Ned dying would have sent the Lannister/Stark war into a blazing overdrive and basically made a truce between the two Houses impossible, which coinceded with Littlefingers plans completely. Nothing Ned was doing would have helped LFs causes.

[Rinso]

I always thought that the duel with Brandon was the turning point for Petyr. I believe that this is the moment in which he became what he is today.

Challenging Brandon was an act of a boy blinded by his childish infatuation, and he paid for that - Catelyn openly supported her fiancee which I guess broke his heart and then he gave him an embarrasing beating. I think that after he got better he had realized that he can't and won't be like them - he will make his own way in life with his own means. Actually, liar and swindler that he is, I can respect this - in a way, he swims against the tide; all he has is his cleverness, no hereditary riches, no old and revered name, no powerful friends (at first) - all he achieved, wicked as it is, he achieved by himself. And I think that the duel with Brandon Stark was pivotal in order to give him the push, the desire to be his own man and, as he said in the TV series, "fuck them".

[Nnorb]

Catelyn always seemed to be Petyr's weakness, his one recognisably human trait that could drive him to acts of folly, which is why I expected him to absolutely lose his shit when he heard about the Red Wedding. Guess not huh?

[Jon AS]

Nnorb, on 09 July 2011 - 05:20 AM, said:

Catelyn always seemed to be Petyr's weakness, his one recognisably human trait that could drive him to acts of folly, which is why I expected him to absolutely lose his shit when he heard about the Red Wedding. Guess not huh?

I think he had already fixated on Sansa as her replacement at that point. It's a dream come true for him: a sort of second chance with "Cat", only with the power balance of the relationship completely reversed.

[Manfryd Lothston]

Todd Sand bastard of AZ, on 06 July 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

You understood everything he said, given your response. Why should he check his spelling? There is no rule against misspelling and sub par grammar in this place, that I'm aware of.

It's hard to read and understand if the person's grammar and structure are as bad as that. I certainly had to struggle somewhat when reading through the OP's post. Good spelling and clear presentation are a sign of respect for the readers.

Edited by Manfryd Lothston, 09 July 2011 - 04:22 PM.

[Manfryd Lothston]

Jon AS, on 09 July 2011 - 05:34 AM, said:

I think he had already fixated on Sansa as her replacement at that point. It's a dream come true for him: a sort of second chance with "Cat", only with the power balance of the relationship completely reversed.

I think it's a mix, actually. A part of Littlefinger definitely sees Sansa as a second chance with Cat or the next best thing. But I also don't think he's lying when he says Sansa is like the daughter they never had with Cat. If it were purely sexual, LF would have had Sansa by now and quenched his desire. Instead he's grooming her to become a queen, and does not seem intent on taking her virginity at all. Petyr is a complex man, and Sansa has the talent to bring out good in people, so it's really hard to say how the story will end (although probably it will end tragically for Petyr).

As to LF's relationship with Cat, yes his entire life has been shaped by that experience in his youth. His insolent facade, his mastery of brothels, the great hunger for power all stem from the rejection complex he's developed. I wonder if we'll ever get his POV, that would certainly prove interesting.