55 replies to this topic

[Triskele]

I wondered about a thread the purpose of which is to discuss (with book spoilers) people's thoughts on the season overall now that it's come and gone.  This would be as opposed to one specific episode.  Perhaps such a thread already exists, but I didn't see it.  I wasn't sure where the best place to put such a thread would be, so perhaps a kindly mod can help.

Edited by Triskele, 06 July 2011 - 06:39 PM.

[Renly Baratheon]

Well I thought it was excellent and my 18 yr old son who didn't read the books marathoned the whole series in one day he thought it was so awesome. My biggest fear is a season two then a cancellation. MY next biggest fear of coarse is that five seasons get completed but we still haven't seen book six and probably won't for another 10 years.

[Mattyp]

All in all I don't think they could have done a better adaptation. There is an obvious lack of Dire Wolves but that's understandable considering they don't actually exist and CGI apparently costs a lot.

My main concerns are for the second season as I can imagine audiences getting very frustrated. Having recently finished the second book I think viewers may struggle with the lack of scenes characters such as Jaime and Robb are in, making them shoehorn in random scenes from the 3rd book. The Bran sections of Clash of Kings are especially boring and I can almost guarantee they won't translate well. I am also worried that the Arya storyline might get a little frustrating as well...she's saved, she's attacked, she escapes, she's captured it's all a bit of a rollarcoaster which does nothing for the actual progression of the storyline! I can't imagine that they'll bother with the war at Kings Landing either, as ships are expensive.

I imagine if the show had a bigger budget that this would quite possibly be the best storyline ever translated into the screen. Sod LOTR.

[estrellas]

Mattyp, on 08 July 2011 - 05:02 AM, said:

All in all I don't think they could have done a better adaptation. There is an obvious lack of Dire Wolves but that's understandable considering they don't actually exist and CGI apparently costs a lot.

My main concerns are for the second season as I can imagine audiences getting very frustrated. Having recently finished the second book I think viewers may struggle with the lack of scenes characters such as Jaime and Robb are in, making them shoehorn in random scenes from the 3rd book. The Bran sections of Clash of Kings are especially boring and I can almost guarantee they won't translate well. I am also worried that the Arya storyline might get a little frustrating as well...she's saved, she's attacked, she escapes, she's captured it's all a bit of a rollarcoaster which does nothing for the actual progression of the storyline! I can't imagine that they'll bother with the war at Kings Landing either, as ships are expensive.

I imagine if the show had a bigger budget that this would quite possibly be the best storyline ever translated into the screen. Sod LOTR.

1. I'm fairly certain it has been said already that they'd be showing more of Robb in season 2 than they did in the actual book. This is a good thing IMO, especially if they show him actually meeting and bedding Jeyne Westerling rather than her coming out of nowhere. And you know the producers won't miss an opportunity to show a girl with her boobs out.

2. GRRM did say he was having a hard time configuring the battle of Kings Landing in a way that suits the budget, but I'm sure they'll work SOMETHING out.

3. Arya's storyline is important...we see the effects of the war from a peasant's viewpoint. If it weren't for Arya, we'd only have nobles in their castles or soldiers marching. She also introduces us to a host of important characters, or enlightens us about other ones, like Beric's band of outlaws, the Boltons, and Sandor Clegane. Arya's route is meandering, yes, but they can't simply chop it up.

[ckwatch1958]

Liked the season generally, but two recurring complaints;
1)Changes that seemed to be made for no reason at all. Like not having the comet. No huge deal, but since the comet starts off book 2, and every faction claims the comet as its own omen, why make the change? Did someone stop and say to themselves "lets get rid of the comet"? How much would a damn comet cost?

2)Feeling the need to explain everything, and leaving out things that they can't "narrate". I know that novels and inner recollections are hard to translate to screen. I have no expectation that everything from the book will be part of the show. But do they have to pound things into our heads? Couldn't we have gotten a feel for Tywin without him giving Jaime the deer skinning speech?

Couldn't we have figured LF out piece by piece, without him giving a speech to one of his hookers?

The Wire was one of my favorite shows. Some people complained that it was hard to follow the plot and remember all of the characters, etc. But figuring it out, re-watching, etc , taking each scene as it came and piecing it together, without being spoon fed, or having someone give you a long speech to let you know what was going on, that was part of what made that show special.

I was hoping that is what I'd see here, instead, it felt a bit more like the first Harry Potter movie, where there was lots of "gee-whiz, look at that magic stuff".

Frankly, I think they wasted too much time trying to make it accessible to people who hadn't read the book. Instead, they should have made it of such high quality that people wanted to read the books.

Despite all that, still enjoyed the season. Even if the flow struck me as odd, there were so many well crafted scenes. Also, thought the acting & casting was great. A little tough having everyone a bit older, but we knew they needed to do that. Thought they messed up Cat the most, but that wasn't the actress's fault.

They cast her too old. "Older" was okay, "old" wasn't. Also, they totally flipped the motivations, when they made Cat be opposed to Ned going south. Guess they were trying to make her more sympathetic, but they lost any feel for Cat as a player from a great house.

[laughing tree knight]

I was just wondering why NED didn't have the good sense that Tyrion did. when he was supposed to declare his guilt at Baelor he should have demanded a trial. COMBAT or otherwise. either way he wins. even in non combat trial they cant risk him declaring joffery's illigitematcy.   and yet they can't deny him trial by the kings law.

Why NED why?

[Cold Hands-Hot Pie]

laughing tree knight, on 09 July 2011 - 06:31 PM, said:

I was just wondering why NED didn't have the good sense that Tyrion did. when he was supposed to declare his guilt at Baelor he should have demanded a trial. COMBAT or otherwise. either way he wins. even in non combat trial they cant risk him declaring joffery's illigitematcy.   and yet they can't deny him trial by the kings law.

Why NED why?

2 reasons come to mind:
- his father and brother both got 'trials' from the last king; how'd that go for them?

- he is still trying to protect his daughters, as Varys pointed out to him in his prior dungeon scene, they are both very vulnerable

Tyrion's case is different; once he manipulates Lysa into the public affair by offering to confess, he's got her.   Her whole court is there so word will get out about what's happening and he is still the queen's brother and son of the most powerful noble in the realm.  Any thing done to Tyrion after this point has to be weighed against the consequences.
Ned on the other hand is discredited and Joffrey has all the reins of power firmly in his hands-- he thinks he is beyond reprisal.

[Bronn Stone]

ckwatch1958, on 09 July 2011 - 02:30 PM, said:

The Wire was one of my favorite shows. Some people complained that it was hard to follow the plot and remember all of the characters, etc. But figuring it out, re-watching, etc , taking each scene as it came and piecing it together, without being spoon fed, or having someone give you a long speech to let you know what was going on, that was part of what made that show special.

I was hoping that is what I'd see here, instead, it felt a bit more like the first Harry Potter movie, where there was lots of "gee-whiz, look at that magic stuff".

You do realize that the broadcast version of The Wire was a commercial and ratings failure.  It has done reasonably well in DVD release, but if GoT had followed that model and achieved the same results, we'd never see it finished.  GoT is EXPENSIVE to make, in a way The Wire never was.  HBO is less concerned with ratings than other networks, but far from unconcerned.  Were D&D to listen to you, we could be 100% certain that A Storm of Swords would never make it to the screen.  It would go on the Firefly list of great shows that died in infancy.  I'd much rather have excessive exposition and multiple seasons of GoT.

[The Anti-Targ]

As an adaptation with no prior guarantee of renewal (though with a pretty decent fanbase to support and evangelise it through season one), and looking at it from a Noob point of view I'd give it an 8/10. It's done a great job of grabbing a decent TV audience and as TV it's a very good series which stands on its own merits as better than most.

from a book fan perspective of how I'd see my idealised adaptation I give it a 6/10. It was good with not too many objectionable departures. But it was not great, the way I wouild want it to be.

Knowing all the constraints, budgetary, time and just plain translating book to screen regardless of any other constraints. I'm going to go with my noob's-eye score of 8/10. I could have asked for more, but I couldn't have asked for too much more.

I am expecting more from season 2. Given it's now established and they should eb able to throw more money at Season 2 to give us more of what we want. But they are still limited by 10 hours.

[Mattyp]

estrellas, on 08 July 2011 - 12:29 PM, said:

1. I'm fairly certain it has been said already that they'd be showing more of Robb in season 2 than they did in the actual book. This is a good thing IMO, especially if they show him actually meeting and bedding Jeyne Westerling rather than her coming out of nowhere. And you know the producers won't miss an opportunity to show a girl with her boobs out.

2. GRRM did say he was having a hard time configuring the battle of Kings Landing in a way that suits the budget, but I'm sure they'll work SOMETHING out.

3. Arya's storyline is important...we see the effects of the war from a peasant's viewpoint. If it weren't for Arya, we'd only have nobles in their castles or soldiers marching. She also introduces us to a host of important characters, or enlightens us about other ones, like Beric's band of outlaws, the Boltons, and Sandor Clegane. Arya's route is meandering, yes, but they can't simply chop it up.

I agree with everything you've said   I've never thought of Arya's storyline to be giving an insight the peasant side of war, interesting point, it really did show the brutality of the Lannister (and occasionally even the northmen) army.

I found Jeyne Westerling very hard to swallow in the books, Robb was so cunning and clever (or at least appeared to me) that I could not believe his stupidity to shun one of his best allies. Perhaps the show will cast a complete fitty to play Jeyne to try and explain away that annoyance!

[tarantella]

I have some gripes about it.  A few of the original scenes were useless (hi Ros) and took away time from things I actually wanted to see (Jon vouching for Sam to Aemon, for example.)  A couple of the actors didn't put much weight behind their roles (MMD comes to mind, her scenes were just weird.  And I actively dislike Shae right now, but I'll hold my judgment until we know exactly what direction they're going with her.)  And of course the non-existent battle scenes.  When I read the series I picture everything in my mind naturally, and I can see all the battles, the fields and rivers and castles etc.  There's no comparison.  Yeah, budget issues, I know, but I'll still much prefer reading the books over watching the HBO series partly for that reason.

Everything else was great.  I would give it an actual score but it would be meaningless; I don't think it's easy to judge objectively because I just loved seeing so many of my favorite scenes from AGOT depicted on the screen, so if there were more faults I probably overlooked them.

Edited by tarantella, 11 July 2011 - 03:57 AM.

[Hyper]

ckwatch1958, on 09 July 2011 - 02:30 PM, said:

Liked the season generally, but two recurring complaints;
1)Changes that seemed to be made for no reason at all. Like not having the comet. No huge deal, but since the comet starts off book 2, and every faction claims the comet as its own omen, why make the change? Did someone stop and say to themselves "lets get rid of the comet"? How much would a damn comet cost?

Your complaint would be much more valid if the comet is excluded from SEASON 2. You yourself make it clear that it is primarily a book 2 plot device.

[HokieStone]

Mattyp, on 08 July 2011 - 05:02 AM, said:

My main concerns are for the second season as I can imagine audiences getting very frustrated. Having recently finished the second book I think viewers may struggle with the lack of scenes characters such as Jaime and Robb are in, making them shoehorn in random scenes from the 3rd book. The Bran sections of Clash of Kings are especially boring and I can almost guarantee they won't translate well. I am also worried that the Arya storyline might get a little frustrating as well...she's saved, she's attacked, she escapes, she's captured it's all a bit of a rollarcoaster which does nothing for the actual progression of the storyline! I can't imagine that they'll bother with the war at Kings Landing either, as ships are expensive.

I just finished a book 2 re-read as well, and am wondering some of the same things.  I imagine they'll show Robb more, but I'm really wondering about Jaime.  He's barely in book 2.  However, his talk with Cat (or at least the gist of it) that happens near the end of book 2 ("There is no one like me, just me") was actually put at the end of season 1 on the TV show.  So I wonder if they'll accelerate his release from Riverun.  Of course to do that, they'll need to get Brienne on the scene earlier, and she doesn't show up until after Cat wanders down to visit Renly and see him get killed.  So they'll have to start moving the timeline significantly.  

As for the Bran scenes being "boring", I imagine they'll just speed up Theon's assault on Winterfell.  I wonder if Asha will be in show more than she was in the book - she was only in 2 chapters or so.  Maybe they'll just leave her out of the show.

[Mattyp]

HokieStone, on 13 July 2011 - 10:28 PM, said:

I just finished a book 2 re-read as well, and am wondering some of the same things.  I imagine they'll show Robb more, but I'm really wondering about Jaime.  He's barely in book 2.  However, his talk with Cat (or at least the gist of it) that happens near the end of book 2 ("There is no one like me, just me") was actually put at the end of season 1 on the TV show.  So I wonder if they'll accelerate his release from Riverun.  Of course to do that, they'll need to get Brienne on the scene earlier, and she doesn't show up until after Cat wanders down to visit Renly and see him get killed.  So they'll have to start moving the timeline significantly.  

As for the Bran scenes being "boring", I imagine they'll just speed up Theon's assault on Winterfell.  I wonder if Asha will be in show more than she was in the book - she was only in 2 chapters or so.  Maybe they'll just leave her out of the show.

I imagine they will include (perhaps) the Jaime escape attempt to give him some screen time, instead of having it happen off screen (or off page as the case may be).

Asha has been cast (with a name change however) so she will be in it. But that's typical of the ASOIAF universe...meet a character, see them twice, then not see them again for an entire book! Great for the novels, but I imagine quite frustrating for a television show!

[Triskele]

Bronn Stone, on 10 July 2011 - 05:16 PM, said:

You do realize that the broadcast version of The Wire was a commercial and ratings failure.  It has done reasonably well in DVD release, but if GoT had followed that model and achieved the same results, we'd never see it finished.  GoT is EXPENSIVE to make, in a way The Wire never was.  HBO is less concerned with ratings than other networks, but far from unconcerned.  Were D&D to listen to you, we could be 100% certain that A Storm of Swords would never make it to the screen.  It would go on the Firefly list of great shows that died in infancy.  I'd much rather have excessive exposition and multiple seasons of GoT.

Yeah, and as your sig implies, I think the major players involved with the show completely understand this.  

The Anti-Targ, on 11 July 2011 - 12:05 AM, said:

from a book fan perspective of how I'd see my idealised adaptation I give it a 6/10. It was good with not too many objectionable departures. But it was not great, the way I wouild want it to be.

Damn.  That's harsh.  I'm very satisfied overall, partly because of what Bronn mentions.  I understand the limitations.  So that said, I'm thrilled with what they pulled off within the limitations.  I love the casting.  Love it.  There isn't a single major character that I think is way off.

[ravenfly]

Overall I was disappointed in season 1. I felt they left alot of important stuff out. They changed the appearance of alot of the characters.

I didn't like that they changed the maester's chain...why was they necessary? They didn't show any battles either and I know its expensive to film that but when Tyrion was in battle with the mountian tribes against the northmen he didn't get whacked in the head and lay out cold for the whole battle...he was very much involved and they made it look like he missed the whole thing and Shae....not at all the way she was in the books...not even the same kind of personality. Robb never has his direwolf by him, neither does Bran. I could go on and on but for all of you who have read the books probably already know what else bothered me.

I guess I just am so enthralled by the books that the show was such a letdown....I mean when has hollywood ever done justice to a book? Lord of the Rings was good and Chronicles of Narnia but even those were changed an awful lot from the books.

I don't have cable or HBO so I had to go to my cousin's (the only person around here that has also read the books) and watched the season over a long time so maybe if I watched it again more straight through I'd see stuff I missed the first time.

[ravenfly]

Mattyp, on 11 July 2011 - 03:28 AM, said:

I found Jeyne Westerling very hard to swallow in the books, Robb was so cunning and clever (or at least appeared to me) that I could not believe his stupidity to shun one of his best allies. Perhaps the show will cast a complete fitty to play Jeyne to try and explain away that annoyance!

I think that was Martin's purpose in the books to frustrate readers when he wrote that whole thing with Jeyne. It was setting up yet another defeat for the "good guys". I think Robb choosing Jeyne reinforced his age and immaturity reminding the readers that he is still just a "kid" and even though he has good battle instincts he really isn't good at non-military tactic.

[Kingslayer]

ravenfly, on 11 August 2011 - 07:56 AM, said:

I think that was Martin's purpose in the books to frustrate readers when he wrote that whole thing with Jeyne. It was setting up yet another defeat for the "good guys". I think Robb choosing Jeyne reinforced his age and immaturity reminding the readers that he is still just a "kid" and even though he has good battle instincts he really isn't good at non-military tactic.

^^^ It definitely proved that Robb suffered from SIDS (Stark Incompetent Dumbass Syndrome). This irreversible- and often fatal- affliction is likely genetic, as his father, his Uncle Brandon, and his sister Sansa all struggled with it. Inconclusive evidence suggests it may also be contagious, as Catelyn and Ser Rodrik showed possible symptoms of the disease.

[Joe Reed]

9.5/10

Very high score despite having a few qualms of course. The first book kind of lacked battle scenes to begin with but I think even people who didn't read the books probably thought it was kind of weak how they just knocked Tyrion out and oh hey, the battle is over, guy.

I also felt that their refusal to have flashback scenes really limited the series and made them go for the sexposition-technique that they ended up doing with the character Ros.

I disliked Ros a lot like most people. I figured she would just become Shae's character but she didn't and they actually introduced Shae as some really angry foreign chick instead.

Finally, I was meh with who they got to play LF. I liked the guy in The Wire alright and think he is a good actor, it is just that LF was pretty over-the-top slick in the books IMO, and the actor played him more low-key if that makes any sense.

Ultimately though, the show was awesome. Superb casting, great acting, great sets, solid fight scenes, good music, great acting, cute girls, British accents and great acting.

[Rhaegar Stark]

It was a strong season. However, it wasn't an amazing one.

I'm looking more forward to season 2 and 3 than I ever was with season 1. I feel that way because i thought ACOK and ASOS were just superior books in terms to plotline and intensity. I mean, now we are actually in the thick of the WotFK. Don't know about you guys, but I'm really lookin' forward to season 2.