nategator, on 05 June 2010 - 02:53 PM, said:
Good food for thought. I disagree with you about Wylla, I have trouble believing any Old Nan-midwife who grew up on around the fingers find herself all the way in Starfall (normal people in medieval times rarely traveled that far). But this is GRRM, and stranger things have happened, so anything is possible.
I agree with you completely. I doubt very much such a person from the Sisters would likely end up in Starfall on their own. A person employed by the Royal Family might, if the Crown Prince asked/ordered her to attend to the needs of Lyanna.
What I find totally bizarre is the idea - not yours - that Wylla could have had a romance or a one-night stand with Ned three or four months into the war and then show up in Starfall to be accepted as a family servant by the Daynes, a family of Targaryen loyalists whose members include the ex-girl friend/lover of Ned. Just how does that work?
I do like your implications of a general pro-Targ coverup. Why? Because it then suggests more people might have knowledge of Jon's true parents than just Howland Reed and Wylla. It would make the "big reveal" that much more easier to pull off and allow GRRM to sprinkle in more hints and clues throughout the narrative.
I do think it likely that others are involved, including others who would have been at the Tower of Joy when Ned arrives. I think a maester is very likely if Lyanna was really going to give birth. We have precedent of maesters being in attendance of the birth of noble children such as the Starks and the Lannister kids, so it makes sense that if Lyanna is with child she would have a maester as well. I've even gone so far as to suggest a name - Marwyn. Total speculation on my part, of course, but it would fit nicely with his trip to the east - as in Ned takes him to Starfall with him and puts him on a boat to get lost for a long period of time. If so, we could learn from him, as well as Ser Barristan in the Dany chapters, and we have the possibility of more bits of information in the Bran chapters from the Reeds. Now, if Jon ever gets it together to begin looking into who his mother was, then we might get something there as well, but I like the idea of revealing bits of the story over many different POVs, even if like this one I expect them to be contradictory to hints in others. It will make the puzzle all the more fun to unravel.
For example, another potential conspirator could be Varys, who seems to know everything and would be motivated to secretly help a potential Targ heir stay hidden. Not that I buy your theory completely at this time, since Lord Godric comes from a family that, after all, by his own admission betrayed Targ's interests.
That kind of depends on how much of the story is true doesn't it? Did Ned Stark truly land in Sisterton only to be set free by Lord Godric? Or is that part of a cover Ned helps to make up, using the place of Wylla is from and his own journey north to call his banners as a frame? I don't know but I'm dying to know how much of this is true.
With Varys, I'm not ready to say yet that he is a Targ sympathizer. Rather I think at least Illyrio is someone who is in it for money and power, and Varys maybe cut from the same cloth or he maybe the real deal and just works with Illyrio to advance Targ interests by convincing the "cheesemonger" that there will be great rewards for scoundrels like him in the chaos of a Westerosi civil war.
It seems odd that such if such a conspiracy exists, it would want his family to be involved in any way with Jon Snow. But if he is pro-Targ, then it would give a hidden motivation for telling Davos, in the Stannis camp, this misinformation. If there is a greater conspiracy to mask Jon's identity, then they have to be concerned that Stannis (who would see Jon as a potential rival claimant and could think of some uses of kingly blood) is so close to Jon.
I don't think there is a greater conspiracy around Jon. Rather I think there are a lot more people with bits of information and who played a role in the events of Lyanna's "abduction/escape" than we know. Lord Godric looks to be one of those on the periphery to me.
I also want to add some additional reasons on why information on Ned's position during the outset of the rebellion is so critical. Looking at a map of Westeros, there were two routes he could have taken north to raise his banners. The western route, by land would put him in the northern Riverlands. As we know Lady Ashara had traveled as far as Harrenhall in the southern-Riverlands for the LTK tourney, there was always the unlikely possibility that she and Ned (or Wylla - a serving girl of House Dayne) could have run into each other in "neutral" territory and conceived Jon. But, by explicitly having Ned take the eastern route by sea and then traveling by land through the North, such an scenario is next to impossible as Lady Ashara, of one of the most pro-Targ Houses during he rebellion, would have had to been in the medieval boonies or hostile territory during a time of war.
Not that Ned's route should be a surprise, since at this time the Riverlords were probably not in the Rebellion's camp until later when Arryn arranged the Cat/Lysa marriages. The safest route was by sea, even though Stark was detoured in the Fingers and could have been sent south to face Targ justice. If such a calamity had occurred, it could have extinguished Northern support for the rebellion as Brandon Stark was too young to rally the northern lords on his own. Especially when knowing now the ambition of House Bolton. Without Northern support, Robert and Jon Arryn would probably not have been able to gain the Riverlands support as well and ultimately would have been crushed by the loyalists.
I thank you for an excellent post.
Thanks, and the same to you for your excellent post as well.