131 replies to this topic

[Ser Taron Dax]

At least he could qualify for the Headless Hunt.

I don't think the new POV will provide any insight into Jon's history at all.

Someone postulated somewhere that it could be a Howland Reed POV, and deal entirely with the Ironmen and the Boltons, and not mention Jon at all.... :lol:

[Belgaesur]

I'm starting to get the feeling that around Westeros, people think that any woman that Ned Stark was ever alone with and who then had a child, or was thought to have had a child, must certainly be his bastard's mother.  It's just a bunch of wild rumors that people have, everyone wanting their local woman to be the mother of a Stark bastard.  Or maybe Ned wasn't as celibate as we think, and he even lies to himself.  The guy probably has kids all over the place, just like Robert.

[All-For-Joffery]

Quote

I'm sticking with Theon and Quentyn as the unnamed POVs.

Could somebody remind me who Quentyn is?

[Mezeh]

All-For-Joffery, on Jun 17 2006, 23.08, said:

Could somebody remind me who Quentyn is?

PRINCE QUENTYN MARTELL, a new-made knight, long fostered by Lord Yronwood of Yronwood.

[Fergus Flatnose]

Is it possible that Ned had his bastard then switched it with his sisters child?

[The Little Crannogman]

I have long been a "Ned is Jon's biological father" supporter. (Ned certainly was Jon's father in every way that mattered: he raised the kid, after all. That's what really counts.) This chapter gives me more hope.

As far as I can see it, the main reason for Jon to be anyone else's child is that people don't think Ned would sire a bastard -- he's too "honorable." But I still hold to the idea that Ned had a moment of indiscretion, and then his honor reasserted itself stronger than ever -- just as Jon did with Ygritte.

I'll admit that there have been many hints to the contrary. But until Lord Reed or someone else shows up and definitively says, "Jon, your parents were actually ______" I'll remain true to my N+_=J beliefs.

[Kingslander]

wow, this has got off-topic. I'm personally a R+L=J fan.

Back to topic:
I don't think Davos will die. Manderly would never choose the Lannister side. If he had his son, he would probably openly choose Stannis' side. In fact, he could be the one to eliminate the Dreadfort as a risk. Also, some people seem to have made mistakes:
a lot of people are talking about how Davos could have had his hands cut off, but wasn't it said that his 'head and hands" were mounted on the walls of Lord Manderly's castle?
Also, somebody said that Rickon was in White Harbor. I might be wrong, as I usually flip through Bran chapters, but isn't Rickon with Bran?

[Jon Targaryen]

Kingslander, on Jul 12 2006, 16.20, said:

I might be wrong, as I usually flip through Bran chapters, but isn't Rickon with Bran?

Rickon separated from Bran in ACOK.

[Memory Lane]

Quote

Godric tells Davos of before Robert's Rebellion, Gulltown remained loyal to Aerys, Ned had to cross the mountains to call his banners when Aerys called for his head. On the Fingers a fisherman carried him across the Bite, but they got caught in a storm - the fisherman's daughter got Ned to the Sisters. They say he left her with silver and a bastard in her belly - Jon Snow, she named it, after Arryn.

Like someone else mentioned, this seems to reek of hearsay and rumor. How would Ned, for example, find out that a fisherman's daughter he slept with was pregnant with his child? Is it ever mentioned that he stopped in the Vale on his way back north? Why would he take the child from the family, to be raised by a wetnurse? Why would the girl name her child Jon Snow, when bastards from the Vale area are named "Stone"?

Ned doesn't say anything about this, so how would people find out about it? Did Ned suddenly show up in town, then leave with a child? Unless we get evidence of the above, I think it's more likely that the girl either was lying about the father (since saying that you carry a Great Lord's bastard would probably go better for you than saying that you got pregnant off the local man-at-arms), or thought she had his child.

I'll admit, though, it would be freaking hilarious if the fisherman's daughter really IS Jon Snow's mother. "Ha, all you fans thought Jon was the half-Targaryen with the Blood of Ice and Fire, or a tragedy-belaiden love child of Ned and his great tourney flame. Well, you were WRONG! He's really just the product of a cold, wet gropefest aboard a small, little boat!" :P

Edited by Guardsman Bass, 03 October 2006 - 03:18 PM.

[Stratonice]

I agree that this seems a lot like rumour and hearsay. And besides, if that's Jon's mother there's even less reason to keep it secret than if if was Wylla or Ashara (much less Lyanna). And then there's the issue of why Edric Dayne would believe that his Dornish wetnurse was Jon's mother if it in fact was a fisherman's daugther from the Vale.

[Benjen]

Red Herring, folks, each of them.

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

I think all this proves is that *nobody*(other than a very select few who has choosen to keep their lips tight)  knows who Jon Snow's mother is, that why there is a million different version and speculations.  Which tend to support R+L=J theory because that's the only scenario where secrecy was demanded, and the secrecy leads to the various specultions.

If Jon really were the the son of a fisherman's daughter, it would have been acknowledged and all the speculation would've stopped.

[JaimeLannister]

What do bastards from the vale get called? And how do you decide the surname? Coz if its the father this new jon snow must be sired by a northman me thinks therefore not robert

[Barba]

JaimeLannister, on Nov 6 2006, 13.35, said:

What do bastards from the vale get called? And how do you decide the surname? Coz if its the father this new jon snow must be sired by a northman me thinks therefore not robert

Stone. We've had Mya Stone, Robert's daughter.

And Surname, IMHO they probably they take by the place they live. Therefore Jon Snow was raised in the North. :)

Edited by Barba, 06 November 2006 - 03:35 PM.

[Ser Romin]

Woot! Go Davos! Davos is one of my favourite characters in the novels. When I first read his very first chapter I was like "who the hell is this?" More and more he is turning into a poor man's Ned Stark, but someone who is much more adept at politics. I look forward to his chapters and I highly doubt he will die in ADWD. As someone mentioned already, there is a strong possibility that Manderly has found Rickon, who they believe is their King and the Manderly's were about as loyal as loyal got. Rickon's either with Howland Reed or the Manderly's and I believe we will see Rickon through someone else's POV in ADWD. Davos running into Rickon and Shaggydog would be so good.

As for the Ned and this fisherman's daughter it's just another Red Herring. Martin is making the reader really question who Jon's realy mother (and maybe father is). I'm not 100% sold on the R+L=J theory, but I am inclined to believe it at the moment. Regardless of who Jon's parents end up being his parentage will most certainly have enormous impacts on the storyline when it is finally reveiled. Whether Rhaegar is his biological father and secretly married Lyanna (thus making Jon heir to the Iron Throne) or Ned is his biological father, the revelation will have a huge impact on the storyline.

Edited by Ser Romin, 03 March 2007 - 03:37 PM.

[Mezeh]

Basically I agree with ser Romin. Whoever will turn out Jon’s parents there is no need to make so great mystery out of it unless the answer will affect the storyline. Fishman daughter  simply doesn’t fit. And there would be no reason for Ned to be so secretive about Jon’s mother name. So the fishman’s daughter story is just another Red Herring.

[The Pale Griffin]

Throwing this out there, but what prevents the Manderlys from cutting off some guy's head, and the hands (cutting off certain fingers), tarring them to hide the features, like Theon did, and claim its Davos. Cersei in the book says that she had it from the Freys that the head and hands were mounted outside the castle, but other than the tales of the Onion Knight, would they actually know what Davos looked like?

Just being a devil's advocate.

[Ran]

I don't really think there's anything to prevent him from doing it. ;)

[TrackerNeil]

Ran, on Mar 6 2007, 14.28, said:

I don't really think there's anything to prevent him from doing it. ;)

In fact, I am 99% sure that's what he did. Manderly wants his heir back, but he doesn't want to unnecessarily tick off Stannis, either, and on top of it all I don't imagine he regards the Lannisters with any great affection. So he secretly arranges an "escape" for Davos, beheads (and behands) some wretch, and makes a phony report to Cersei. The worst case scenario is that Cersei finds out and complains from all the way in King's Landing, and Wyman, with his heir safely at home, shrugs, offers abject apologies and probably some lame excuse, and then goes about his business. As long as Manderly is otherwise cooperating Roose Bolton's not likely to go to war with White Harbor over some upjumped smuggler, and Cersei is too far away to do anything except fume.

[cybroleach]

TrackerNeil, on Mar 6 2007, 15.37, said:

In fact, I am 99% sure that's what he did. Manderly wants his heir back, but he doesn't want to unnecessarily tick off Stannis, either, and on top of it all I don't imagine he regards the Lannisters with any great affection. So he secretly arranges an "escape" for Davos, beheads (and behands) some wretch, and makes a phony report to Cersei. The worst case scenario is that Cersei finds out and complains from all the way in King's Landing, and Wyman, with his heir safely at home, shrugs, offers abject apologies and probably some lame excuse, and then goes about his business. As long as Manderly is otherwise cooperating Roose Bolton's not likely to go to war with White Harbor over some upjumped smuggler, and Cersei is too far away to do anything except fume.

And she's in no position to do that anyway given her current imprisonment.

A question was it Davos head and HANDS? (i always thought it was hand since you'd only need the one to show it was the shortened fingered upjumped smuggler whould the other be nessary. I don't have AFFC to check.