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Finished AFFC Spoilers Aplenty


JD44Irish

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I've always sympathised with Sansa as a character- sure, what happened to Ned was her fault, but she was a child. Lady being killed was tough because Joff was heir to the throne! You can't call him a liar! In her position I'd have said I couldn't remember too, and by that point it'd be too late to say anything to save my direwolf. From then on she's a pawn in a bigger game, and deals with it as well as a developing girl can.

The romanticism of her encounters with Sandor brought me round from a previously neutral feeling about her to kind of positive, then that scene where Littlefinger explains who Harry the Heir is... Oh that chapter, I had chills and do again now thinking about it! (Never been a Petyr fan btw). Can't wait to see how that angle plays out, because that scene was up there with The King In The North and very select few other scenes for awesomeness to me- basically the complete other end of the spectrum than the RW.

Although I can't help but feel Littlefinger has even more plans to manipulate Sansa, I can't see a negative at this point to his proposed plan.

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I've always sympathised with Sansa as a character- sure, what happened to Ned was her fault, but she was a child. Lady being killed was tough because Joff was heir to the throne! You can't call him a liar! In her position I'd have said I couldn't remember too, and by that point it'd be too late to say anything to save my direwolf. From then on she's a pawn in a bigger game, and deals with it as well as a developing girl can.

The romanticism of her encounters with Sandor brought me round from a previously neutral feeling about her to kind of positive, then that scene where Littlefinger explains who Harry the Heir is... Oh that chapter, I had chills and do again now thinking about it! (Never been a Petyr fan btw). Can't wait to see how that angle plays out, because that scene was up there with The King In The North and very select few other scenes for awesomeness to me- basically the complete other end of the spectrum than the RW.

Although I can't help but feel Littlefinger has even more plans to manipulate Sansa, I can't see a negative at this point to his proposed plan.

Yeah that LF and Alyayne scene was good. I did want to be happy for Sansa but something tells me the deal isn't as sweet as and innocent as it sounds. LF is a scheming doich-bag and I don't trust him.

I did feel a ton of sympathy for Sansa and am quite shocked by her immediate growth once she took her new name. She finally became a young woman as opposed to the doe-eyed teenager that was as easy to manipulate as a joystick.

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I was just thinking about the way the people on the boat treated Arya. None of them asked her name, but they all made sure she knew theirs. She said they made her repeat their names and they gave her gifts. It seems pretty clear that they all knew where she was heading; I'm wondering if there are restrictions concerning who she could kill in the future. Say if someone did you a kindness or gave you a gift, then you couldn't kill them even if someone tried to hire you to. Kind of like a guest right?

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I've now read the first 5 books in just over 2 months, alot of it in bed whilst semi-asleep, so i know there's some stuff i missed or didn't connect. So reading through all of this has helped connect alot of the dots, so cheers for that. One thing i was questioning and no one seems to have mentioned is that Stannis' Onion Knight/new hand seems to have been killed off on a diplomatic mission, but it's mentioned off hand as a seemingly small event and that's that. As a former POV character and a guy you felt for, seeing as his son's had died and being beached alone and all of that i thought it was surprising we never even saw his death, unless we did and i slept-read it and have forgotten? Is there something i've missed?

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I do NOT think that Brienne is dead. She shouts a word and that word is her savior. Can't wait to find out what that word is.

Other remarks:

-Didn't the guy Brienne travels with say that Sandor died and that he buried him?

-Dind't pick up on what Quyburn(?) was doing in the black cells at all, other than just maiming people. When Cersei said she had a champion i didn't know what she was talking about. But you say it's Gregorstein? Lol, nice.

-Love this new stuff in Oldtown, Jquen H'gar and the faceless men are some of the most intriguing characters in the series for me.

-Love, Love, Love Jamie (Se what I did there ;D ) He is so badass and cool throughout this book.

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I do NOT think that Brienne is dead. She shouts a word and that word is her savior. Can't wait to find out what that word is.

Other remarks:

-Didn't the guy Brienne travels with say that Sandor died and that he buried him?

-Dind't pick up on what Quyburn(?) was doing in the black cells at all, other than just maiming people. When Cersei said she had a champion i didn't know what she was talking about. But you say it's Gregorstein? Lol, nice.

-Love this new stuff in Oldtown, Jquen H'gar and the faceless men are some of the most intriguing characters in the series for me.

-Love, Love, Love Jamie (Se what I did there ;D ) He is so badass and cool throughout this book.

- Do you think Pod will survive too? I know its not likely since he was already hanging before Brienne shouted the word

- And I don't think Sandor is truly dead, the guy who said it explained his own 'death' for a reason to Brienne to show her that dying doesn't truly mean dying

- Wasn't Cersei thinking of having Jaime be her champion? or was that just as a last resort

- At what part did Jaqen re-emerged in AFFC?? If he did show up I don't recall ever seeing him in the book, is it at the end? what name was he under, I read the entire book and didn't skip anything.

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I don't know if Pod survives, but I sure hope so.

Cersei was indeed thinking of having Jamie as her champion, i guess she (as a lot of people) doesn't realise just how poor a fighter he is without his sword hand :P But the reason she would pick him is because she is queen and will only be allowed to be championed by a member of the kingsguard, and the ones that aren't Jamie are rubbish now that Loras is out of the picture. If she didn't have to choose someone from the kingsguard she would have picked someone with two hands i think :) She also says she has a perfectly good champion that she can not use, and when I read this I didn't understand who she meant. Reading posts on this forum though, it seems that Quyburn has been making some kind of Frankensteins monster, and that this is the champion she can't use.

Pate, introduced in the very last chapter of the book, seems to be a faceless man that have taken the identity of the guy that gets killed in the prologue. The one that stole from the citadel to get money to buy a maiden/whore that he was in love with. The guy that kills him is described looking like Jaqen.

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I don't know if Pod survives, but I sure hope so.

Cersei was indeed thinking of having Jamie as her champion, i guess she (as a lot of people) doesn't realise just how poor a fighter he is without his sword hand :P But the reason she would pick him is because she is queen and will only be allowed to be championed by a member of the kingsguard, and the ones that aren't Jamie are rubbish now that Loras is out of the picture. If she didn't have to choose someone from the kingsguard she would have picked someone with two hands i think :) She also says she has a perfectly good champion that she can not use, and when I read this I didn't understand who she meant. Reading posts on this forum though, it seems that Quyburn has been making some kind of Frankensteins monster, and that this is the champion she can't use.

Pate, introduced in the very last chapter of the book, seems to be a faceless man that have taken the identity of the guy that gets killed in the prologue. The one that stole from the citadel to get money to buy a maiden/whore that he was in love with. The guy that kills him is described looking like Jaqen.

ooo yaaa lol I remember now, when he was ambushed in the alley from the hooded guy, that must have been Jaqen, awesome :D gonna have to re-read that last part of AFFC to see it in a new light.

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Can I start with saying something about Ser Arys Oakheart... MOST POINTLESS DEATH EVER!!! :bang:

Now that is out of the way...

- About The Hound not dying and Gregorstein, I've never thought of those theories before until I read everyone's posts. Good one.

- Cersei. Her chapters are very fun to read. Despite her bitchiness, constant scheming and paranoia, I ended up liking her and want her to triumph against the Tyrells.

- The Tyrells. They have their own agenda, I really don't know whether they are on the good or bad side or they are just doing everything to survive and are looking out for their own skin. You can say that about anyone actually; with the possible exception of a few, everyone is on the grey area.

- Daenerys. Besides the Ironborn, Dorne and the Mage in Oldtown, are there any more characters with hidden agendas for Dany? It goes without saying that she is going to be a pivotal character in later books.

- What will happen to the Blackfish and the Riverrun army? I think they may join the outlaws but such a huge number is bound to cause attention. Do you think Edmure and Blackfish knows about Lady Stoneheart? It's possible that Tom o' Sevens might have tipped Edmure about Cat, though I'm not so sure about the Blackfish.

- Lady Sybell Westerling. I'm confused about her. Even before Robb left for the Twins, has she already betrayed him and plotted with Tywin? Or did that only happen after the Red Wedding?

- Who tipped Doran Martell about Arianne and co.?

- Is Brienne falling in love with (or at least starting to like) Jaime Lannister? On their way to Crackclaw Point she reminisced about the melee at Bitterbridge. It then ends with "She went to sleep dreaming of the fight they’d had, and of Ser Jaime fastening a rainbow cloak about her shoulders." At first I thought it was just a typo :D I think her constant reminder to herself of her oath to Jaime is just her unconscious way of diverting attention, of not wanting to reveal her own feelings, even to herself.

- Also, can the Ironborn just drown themselves? Incredibly boring characters. Almost made me stop reading the book because they were in so much the first few chapters!

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I loved this book. I had a lot of trouble getting started with it, the change in the pacing compared to aSoS and the absence of most of my favorite characters turned me off from the get go. After finishing it, however, I think it's my second favorite book in the series after aSoS.

Some of my favorite parts:

Master Aemon finally finding out about Dany and her dragons, and lamenting that the time has finally come but he's too old and frail to go help her, and then dying. This was heartbreaking.

Brienne's showdown with Rorge and Biter at the inn.

The Greyjoy Kingsmoot. The introduction of Euron as an actual character in this book was nice, he's quite a bit more formidable of a player in this story than earlier descriptions led me to believe. I'm convinced he killed Balon too.

Prince Doran's exposition to his daughter at the end of their storyline.

Cersei slowly tying her own noose and hanging herself over the course of the book. Littlefinger was 100% right about her, she is completely helpless at this game without someone smarter to keep her in check. I kind of expect her to escape justice somehow, though.

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Moester,

I don't know who ratted out Arianne, but I can't wait to find out. Arys was cool until Areo chopped him in half. Poor guy just wanted some Dornishwoman lovin.

Tom O' Sevens definitely was tipping off the Brotherhood Without Banners about the comings and goings of the Freys. And, that makes me happy.

Sybell Westerling is a hag. The question is whether or not the Jeyne that Jaime met was actually Jeyne, and if Jeyne was with Robb's child when the Blackfish escaped Riverrun. It is not unlike GRRM to have Jeyne fat with the heir to the King of the North fleeing the Riverlands with him. To where? White Harbor?

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Lady Sybell Westerling. I'm confused about her. Even before Robb left for the Twins, has she already betrayed him and plotted with Tywin? Or did that only happen after the Red Wedding?

What I understand about her, it's that she planned all the betrayal thing (with Tywin ofc) from the beginning.

Catelyn told Robb that the Westerling were Lannister's men, and to keep an eye on them. That 's why he send his wife's uncle far from him. Cat was right about the treason, but Robb made a mistake about the member of the family who was involved.

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What I understand about her, it's that she planned all the betrayal thing (with Tywin ofc) from the beginning.

Catelyn told Robb that the Westerling were Lannister's men, and to keep an eye on them. That 's why he send his wife's uncle far from him. Cat was right about the treason, but Robb made a mistake about the member of the family who was involved.

Robb said that Grey Wind doesn't like Rolph Spicer (he bares his teeth everytime Spicer comes near him) so maybe Spicer could be an accomplice too, but he never said anything about Grey Wind not liking Jeyne's mother except for this quote "Jeyne’s anxious around him, and he terrifies her mother." Terrified is usually a standard reaction to seeing a giant wolf.

Something just doesn't add up here, I hope we'll get answers in ADWD.

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The singer he used on Edmure was Tom of Sevenstreams. Tom is secretly a member of the BWB (nobody in the Frey camp knows that, of course) - that's how they knew to catch Ryman Frey, for instance.

As for Tom and Edmure's backhistory, Tom also wrote a song about a floppy fish once, referring to Edmure, who apparently once wooed a girl, but was... too drunk to do anything with her. Edmure has hated singers ever since - especially Tom.

EDIT:Spoilerizing my post

I also think that ToSS

Tom of Seven was playing the rains of cashmire which was the song that was played over and over again the red wedding

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Hi all,

Finished AFFC yesterday. Like many struggled at first but eventually found I loved the book, kind of a Post Major war breathing space to tie up some loose ends and start off a few more.....

One thing that is a little difficult for me is that I have read the first 5 books in about 2-3 months and often in bed, I think as a consequece its quite hard to follow some plot lines and link bits together so if any of the stuff I say next is dumb then thats my excuse ! ! !

My thoughts - glad to see the Gregorstein theory, had been thinking the same so good to know im not imagining things.

Sansa, Shes seems to be learning "the game of thrones" very well from LF, she might end up a major player? What do others think? Anyways up I fear for her "maidenhead" as I doubt LF will let her Marry Harry the Heir without having his way with her first.

Jeyne Westerling: I think she might be pregnant and have been swapped out by her mother..? hence 2 different descriptions etc

Huge smile when Cersei got locked up by the High Septon - Brilliant !

Even though they were a bit slow and contrived I quite liked the storylines with the Iron Men and Dorne

Iron men - Euron is a badass and has the magic horn to control dragons, are the Ironborn bigger players than they seem? Perhaps there is some kind of Vindication storyline waiting for us with Theon turning back on the Iron men ?

Dorne - Hmmmm. all seemed pointless until the revealtions about Viserys. Will await with interest.

My final crackpot theory - beacuse I can't remember what we do / don't know about Hodors origins i'm going with him being the Youngest brother of Gregor & Sandor ! :cool4:

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- Do you think Pod will survive too? I know its not likely since he was already hanging before Brienne shouted the word

- And I don't think Sandor is truly dead, the guy who said it explained his own 'death' for a reason to Brienne to show her that dying doesn't truly mean dying

- Wasn't Cersei thinking of having Jaime be her champion? or was that just as a last resort

- At what part did Jaqen re-emerged in AFFC?? If he did show up I don't recall ever seeing him in the book, is it at the end? what name was he under, I read the entire book and didn't skip anything.

Jaqen is the Alchemist.

Lady Sybel and her brother plotted with Tywin. It appears Jeyne did not know of this.

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Hi all,

Finished AFFC yesterday. Like many struggled at first but eventually found I loved the book, kind of a Post Major war breathing space to tie up some loose ends and start off a few more.....

One thing that is a little difficult for me is that I have read the first 5 books in about 2-3 months and often in bed, I think as a consequece its quite hard to follow some plot lines and link bits together so if any of the stuff I say next is dumb then thats my excuse ! ! !

My thoughts - glad to see the Gregorstein theory, had been thinking the same so good to know im not imagining things.

Sansa, Shes seems to be learning "the game of thrones" very well from LF, she might end up a major player? What do others think? Anyways up I fear for her "maidenhead" as I doubt LF will let her Marry Harry the Heir without having his way with her first.

Jeyne Westerling: I think she might be pregnant and have been swapped out by her mother..? hence 2 different descriptions etc

Huge smile when Cersei got locked up by the High Septon - Brilliant !

Even though they were a bit slow and contrived I quite liked the storylines with the Iron Men and Dorne

Iron men - Euron is a badass and has the magic horn to control dragons, are the Ironborn bigger players than they seem? Perhaps there is some kind of Vindication storyline waiting for us with Theon turning back on the Iron men ?

Dorne - Hmmmm. all seemed pointless until the revealtions about Viserys. Will await with interest.

My final crackpot theory - beacuse I can't remember what we do / don't know about Hodors origins i'm going with him being the Youngest brother of Gregor & Sandor ! :cool4:

Hodor is Old Nan's Great Grandson. His name isn't Hodor, I think it's...Walder? He was dropped as a baby, I think. I can't remember. It's been a bit.

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Hodor is Old Nan's Great Grandson. His name isn't Hodor, I think it's...Walder? He was dropped as a baby, I think. I can't remember. It's been a bit.

Yeah Figured I was wrong - just too many characters to keep a track of. Shame though - Hodor fights Gregorstein to death on top of wall - we all want to see it !

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