28 replies to this topic

[Xray the Enforcer]

A discussion of the second Tyrion chapter. Do not discuss events from later in the book.

[mouse]

Do we know this Griff character that keeps getting referenced in Tyrion 2, from one of the prior books? I feel like I should know who that is, but I don't see that character in the Wiki.

[The Evil Hat]

You haven't missed anything explicit yet; keep writing. I won't say more, to avoid spoilers.

[Kirazi]

Hmmm. Who is Griff, and is Young Griff the boy that Illyrio was talking about? Illyrio also mentions the boy's wedding....to whom? Hmmm

[RICKON4KING!!]

More food.

[Brewmaster]

Nice background info on Varys...and Illryio for that matter.

[Alaerien]

I also wondered about Griff and Young Griff. I do remember that the griffin is the symbol of House Connington of Griffin's Roost, which makes me think of Jon Connington, the Hand of the King exiled by Aerys. Tyrion thinks (in A Clash of Kings, according to The Tower of the Hand) that Connington died penniless in exile, but reports of his death could be greatly exaggerated.

(edited out some references to the next Tyrion chapter. I got 2 and 3 mixed up.)

If that's the case, it won't remain a mystery for long, because Barristan Selmy will surely recognise him on sight.

Edited by Alaerien, 14 July 2011 - 04:45 AM.

[JD44Irish]

Loved the chapter, I think we are starting to see who the Targaryen allies will be.  Dany, Tyrion, Illyrio and Varys.  If the end of the Dorne section of AFFC is any indication, I would expect Dorne to support them too.

We also know the Iron Men are hunting for Dany too, so those two stories will be intersecting soon I expect.  I can't believe I'm about to say this... but I'm actually looking forward to some greyjoy chapters.

[arya_underfoot]

Both griff and his son are dyeing their hair blue, supposedly some Tyroshi sentiment for their dead wife/mother. I suspect it must be part of a disguise. Griff being Jon Connington makes sense. Ilyrio says he trusts Griff like a brother. It would fit with Connington being a Targaryen loyalist plotting with Ilyrio, who we know wants Dany on the Iron Throne, to put the Targaryens back in power. But why would he take an obvious name like Griff? I guess it doesn't matter in Essos, but a Westerosi who knows his history??

[PetrusOctavianus]

Tyrion certainly has som morbid thoughts about Tywin.

From Tyrion 1:
"If only I was better with a crossbow, I would have put it through that cock you made me with, you bloody bastard."

From Tyrion 2:
"He looked for ruts and cracks but found only a pile of warm dung deposited by one of the horses. The dung made him think of his lord father."

Tyrion used to be my favourite, both as character and POV, but it's harder to sympathize with the man he has become after he was released from the black cells by Jaime.

[Tammy]

Tyrion wondered something intriguing that I hadn't thought of before.  Why is Illyrio interested in who wears the crown in Westeros?  I suppose he could want to be master of the coin, but that doesn't make sense because he then says that he enjoys his manse better than any castle.

Whatever he's interested in, they must think it's important for the Lannisters to remain in power because he, if it was him, was talking with Varys, I assume, in GoT about killing Ned if he proved to be as much of a problem as Jon Arryn.

[Morky_Pep]

Back in AGOT they do speak of Ned dieing.(and it was Illyrio and Varys) "If one hand should die, than why not another" or something like that, but it didnt seem as if they themselves were specifically plotting to kill him. Varys replies by saying "this hand is not like the last", as in, they were assuming that someone else would kill him for them.

I dont think Varys and Illyrio want the Lannisters on the throne, because Tyrion is hated by Cersei, and why would Illyrio be sending him to Daenarys or doing anything he has been doing for the entirety of the series if he did support the Lannisters. When they speak of Neds death as something they want to happen, i assume it was because his death would mean war with the Starks and would cause turmoil in the seven kingdoms, thus making Daenarys's return and invasion much smoother.

I think you are thinking too much, Varys and Illyrio are definately Targaryan supporters. As to why they are Targaryan supporters, i think they are just choosing the side they think will win, and or are generally looking out for the good of the realm.

[Queensmoot]

I for one enjoy Tyrion's bitterness. He's definitely earned it. If I had been through what he has I dare say I'd be worse.

I've really enjoyed he and Illyrio's banter - especially the mushrooms. That was deftly done on Martin's part. I agree with Tammy, there is more to Illyrio's motivations. I don't think we know him well enough yet to know what that is. Perhaps he doesn't think Dany would stop with only the 7 kingdoms? Maybe he wants to be Warden of Essos under the Iron Throne. Maybe he and Varys have a personal stake from their past that hasn't been revealed. Perhaps Littlefinger is involved, thoguht I doubt he and Varys work together more than occasionally. I'm taking Game Theory this semester and it's made me paranoid.

[ollygb]

so where do whores go? i love how he keeps asking that of those he meets.

[Jennelyn]

Seems that Illyrio is in league with Doran Martell if he is aligned with the Golden Company which is who Quentyn is with, right? Wow! This is shaping up to be quite the conspiracy! It's hard to believe Littlefinger isn't involved with all these major players. If not, what is his endgame? I can't believe it stops at giving Winterfell back to the Starks.

Anyway, enjoyed the info about the history of the land. What happens when they reach the river? Does Tyrion go by himself down the river to Volantis? I'm still a little confused about the lay of the land and how the two maps line up with each other. Where is Valyria in relation to Pentos and Volantis? I assume Daenarys is east of where they are.

And fatass is disgusting me with all his gorging. Picturing Tyrion becoming a smaller fatass. What a sight that would be!

[Laohu]

PetrusOctavianus, on 26 July 2011 - 08:32 PM, said:

Tyrion used to be my favourite, both as character and POV, but it's harder to sympathize with the man he has become after he was released from the black cells by Jaime.

If anything, I think I have come to sympathize even more with Tyrion. When we first became aquainted with him in GoT, it was evident that he has been ridiculed his entire life for something he has no control over. After getting to know him more thoroughly in these last three books, how can someone not be more sympathetic? Take all the shit he has been through in his young life prior to the start of the series and compounded that exponentially. What you come up with is something much more than a normal human being could put up with, let alone not be emotionally affected by. The fact that he has still managed to be as calculating and smart as ever... Well, props to him.

Morky_Pep, on 20 August 2011 - 02:58 PM, said:

Varys and Illyrio are definately Targaryan supporters. As to why they are Targaryan supporters, i think they are just choosing the side they think will win, and or are generally looking out for the good of the realm.

I would venture to say that both Varys and Illyrio feel some sort of loyalty to, or at least a tendency to prefer, the Targaryen line based on the fact that all their origins come from Essos. It sounds like Illyrio is from Braavos, Varys from Myr, and the Targaryen line is, of course, from old Valyria. All of these locations are across the sea from Westeros, and I feel that there is a nature human emotion to preserve ties to those of a similar background.

This is just an opinion, and I am sure that there are even more reasons for Illyrio and Varys' loyalty to Daenerys beyond this.

Edited by Laohu, 07 December 2011 - 11:27 AM.

[Vincent23]

the sphinx Tyrion comes across with the dragons body and womans face must be of some importance as im pretty sure its the sphinx Maester Aemon mentions to Sam after finding out about Dany..however it could be the boy called "Sphinx" at the Citadel.. but the statue makes more sense due to how it looks..what do you guys think ?

Edited by Vincent23, 18 December 2011 - 05:56 PM.

[atia-]

"Tyrion was almost sorry that he had killed his father.  He would have enjoyed seeing Lord Tywin's face when he learned that there was a Targaryen queen on her way to Westeros with three dragons, backed by a scheming eunuch and a cheesemonger half the size of Casterly Rock."

[Crown]

dannister, on 14 February 2012 - 04:36 AM, said:

"Tyrion was almost sorry that he had killed his father.  He would have enjoyed seeing Lord Tywin's face when he learned that there was a Targaryen queen on her way to Westeros with three dragons, backed by a scheming eunuch and a cheesemonger half the size of Casterly Rock."

Haha, that line made me laugh out loud aswell. Kinda awkward, since it was like 1 or 2 am and my mom was sleeping.

[Blaer Dayle]

I'm loving where Dany's story is going with what we learn in this chapter, if we think of her definite allies (in the loosest sense of the world since you can truly trust nobody in ASoIaF) we have:

Herself
Her dragons
Tyrion Lannister
Ilyrio Mopatis
Griff (who may in fact be Jon Connington)
Varys
Barristan Selmy
His training knights
The loyal Meereenese
The remainder of her Khalasar
Including her blood riders
Her unsullied
The Golden Company
Her slave "children"
(If Robert can be believed) "half the scum" of Westeros
Quentyn (backed by the Martells and by extension Dorne)

I may be missing some, but we also have allies who through speculation, or prophecy may come to join her cause:

Jon Snow (backed by the nights watch, and wildlings)
Melisandre (if she realizes that Dany is the true fulfillment of the prophecy)
Arya (if somehow their paths cross in time)
That mage from the citadel who Sam talked with in his last chapter in aFFC
along with him some unspecified number of maesters at the citadel

And then there are those I want to join her cause , but can't see a conceivable way of actually doing so:

Sansa
Littlefinger
Jaime
The faith

Since Dany has been my favorite character since book 1, I'd say I'm quite pleased where the story is going.

Edited by Blair Dale, 14 March 2012 - 10:15 AM.