Xray the Enforcer Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 A discussion of the second jon chapter. Do not discuss events from later in the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Crispy of Bacon Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Janos Slynt, for the win! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Grifter Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Delighted to see Janos Slynt get it!Also at the way Jon did it, although it makes me nervous too as he's being very Ned-like Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sun Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 This is where I am at the moment, and so far I'm finding the book a bit of a hard slog, not enjoying it very much. Also going over actions that we've covered early in AFFC feels repetitive even if it is from Jon's POV this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spilt Pea Soup Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 This is where I am at the moment, and so far I'm finding the book a bit of a hard slog, not enjoying it very much. Also going over actions that we've covered early in AFFC feels repetitive even if it is from Jon's POV this time.I agree. The book is bogged down by repeating things that seem minor and unnecessary. I'm going to be pissed off if Davos dies, because then we'll have wasted chapters for a plotline whose resolution was revealed by a character 5 years ago in the previous book, but I'm holding out hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msmelxx Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 I'm sure I'm not the only one who thought the lead up to as well as Janos Slynt's execution was incredibly satisfying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Pistus Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 More than half of the chapter was recycled material from Sam 1 in Feast. Odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doran Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 This is where I am at the moment, and so far I'm finding the book a bit of a hard slog, not enjoying it very much. Also going over actions that we've covered early in AFFC feels repetitive even if it is from Jon's POV this time.I agree. The book is bogged down by repeating things that seem minor and unnecessary. I strongly disagree. I loved that chapter! When I realised that we were getting the same events we already knew from Sam's POV from Jon's this time, I pulled out Feast and read them in parallel. Amazing! For example, where Jon just notices that Sam's looks like he wants to add something more at one point, but doesn't think more of it, Sam is actually torn about telling him that his brother Bran is still alive. Again when Jon has no idea why Sam doesn't wnat to become a maester. Very well done, I think. I love that "Rashomon" or "Ender's shadow" feeling where you realise that the same events, the same conversation even can be so entirely different for each of the participants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Pistus Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 I strongly disagree. I loved that chapter! When I realised that we were getting the same events we already knew from Sam's POV from Jon's this time, I pulled out Feast and read them in parallel. Amazing! For example, where Jon just notices that Sam's looks like he wants to add something more at one point, but doesn't think more of it, Sam is actually torn about telling him that his brother Bran is still alive. Again when Jon has no idea why Sam doesn't wnat to become a maester. Very well done, I think. I love that "Rashomon" or "Ender's shadow" feeling where you realise that the same events, the same conversation even can be so entirely different for each of the participants.This might work well if we first read Jon's chapter, and then Sam's. It was the other way round, however. I do not think the repetition in this form added anything we did not know. Very odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophronisba Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 I strongly disagree. I loved that chapter! When I realised that we were getting the same events we already knew from Sam's POV from Jon's this time, I pulled out Feast and read them in parallel. Amazing! For example, where Jon just notices that Sam's looks like he wants to add something more at one point, but doesn't think more of it, Sam is actually torn about telling him that his brother Bran is still alive. Again when Jon has no idea why Sam doesn't wnat to become a maester. Very well done, I think. I love that "Rashomon" or "Ender's shadow" feeling where you realise that the same events, the same conversation even can be so entirely different for each of the participants.I loved it, too. I just read this chapter in Feast last week, so I remembered it pretty clearly and I loved seeing it from Jon's side. And I also thought that Janos Slynt's end was handled perfectly. This was the chapter where I really started to get into the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Hat Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 I'm sure I'm not the only one who thought the lead up to as well as Janos Slynt's execution was incredibly satisfying.Certainly not, I thought the chapter's ending was fantastic. And I think that seeing the events from different perspectives is very interesting, if perhaps not necessary, due to the different focuses they give. While the viewpoints happen at the same time, there's really rather little true overlap in events/locations, so it's not like a pure retread.Besides, isn't seeing how, while the characters can shape the events of the world, the world is larger than any one of them one of the core things of Martin's world? In Sam's chapters, we don't see how tumultuous the Watch around him is, while, in Jon's many of Sam's thoughts are more whining than reasoned, no more matter how sensible they seemed to us in Sam's perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xray the Enforcer Posted July 13, 2011 Author Share Posted July 13, 2011 I actually enjoyed this chapter to see it from both Jon's and Sam's POVs, even though we're going over material we already understand. It took me a moment to mentally shift (during the first chapter) when I kept hearing about Aemon, but that quickly passed. Loved the end of Janos Slynt, although now I'm beginning to wonder how this is going to bite Jon in the ass for later chapters. (although maybe not, since this is still a single narrative that happens to be broken up into 5 books thus far). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahri Adaran Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 More than half of the chapter was recycled material from Sam 1 in Feast. Odd.I think this looks pretty odd for us avid book readers, but people who haven't read any of his books since feast came out really need this recap. Think he could've done it in a better way though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andhaira Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 I actually enjoyed this chapter to see it from both Jon's and Sam's POVs, even though we're going over material we already understand. It took me a moment to mentally shift (during the first chapter) when I kept hearing about Aemon, but that quickly passed. Loved the end of Janos Slynt, although now I'm beginning to wonder how this is going to bite Jon in the ass for later chapters. (although maybe not, since this is still a single narrative that happens to be broken up into 5 books thus far).Well, it doesn't have to necessarily bite him in the ass. Sure Slynt has some friends like Throne, but they are too few to make a move on Jon. Also, Mel already warned him that there were people posing as his friends who were in actuality out to get him bad. So Jon has little to fear from open enemies. He needs to be wary around those he trusts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sun Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 I'm sure I'm not the only one who thought the lead up to as well as Janos Slynt's execution was incredibly satisfying.Janys Slynt's death and the it was laid out along with Jon's internal monologue was the best part of this chapter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Crispy of Bacon Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 I liked hearing that arrogant scum begging for mercy when he realized that he was dealing with his lord and not some boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Early Earl Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Janos Slynt and Allyster Thorne still wear one head too many. I do agree though that might be the least of his problems.I liked how he's manning the wall and just generally having a charackter again, who at least seems to make good decisions.That Jade compendium Aemon left for Jon to read, is that the one Quentin got from his maester? I forget and I'm too lazy to look it up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanderpanda Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 I think the Jon PoV of an aFfC chapter was good purely to get the readers head back into where the timeline is. Having just finished my reread of the series the night before the release It was nice to have this scene to dial my brain back a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion Lannister Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Take THAT, Janos Slynt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Arya Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Jan0s Slynt's death and the it was laid out along with Jon's internal monologue was the best part of this chapter.until now, this chapter its one of my favorites, the internal monologue was AMAZING! and for me, showing jon's side of the conversation was very clever of Martin.although, jon its getting A LOT like Ned.... this could end up being a problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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