[ADWD SPOILERS] Jon 4

[Xray the Enforcer]

YELLOW!

[The Adequate Jon]

I loved this chapter. I've been dying to read about the battle for the North since ASOS. This chapter is full of strategy discussions on how Stannis can take over the North.

Having read AFFC, it looks almost certain that the Ironmen will be thrown out of the North. The Boltons and Freys will take care of Moat Cailin, and Stannis will liberate Deepwood Motte. The Ironmen are more focused on the Reach and Dany's dragons, so they won't put up much of a fight. But GRRM probably won't make it so simple.

Liberating Deepwood Motte would win the Glovers to Stannis' side. Along with the Mountain Clans, the Karstarks, and possibly the Umbers would give Stannis half the North.

[MyDogIsNamedDanerys]

I'm finding myself slightly annoyed by Jon again. His strategy to send Stannis wandering around the Mountains sounds stupid to be frank. Certainly it's far-fetched. I'm shocked Stannis went along with it, but Jon's "special" so of course his plan will work.

...Kinda hope it fails TBH...

Also darn it I wanted Stannis to Stay At The Wall. Jon's chapters are made awesome by his droll humor and badassness.

[Tall Tyrion Lannister!]

I'm not sure on how well it'll do. But it seems likea better option than attacking the Dreadfort.

[Windchaser]

Stannis doom is not so close as hand it first seemed (really, I figured he was doomed when it was revealed that Mel was wrong to think Stannis was her little savior person).

Jon is almost too clever, yes. But Stannis needs men, if he can get thousands by just wandering around the mountains some...And wooden castle vs. fearsome and thick stone walls?

Yes, I would prefer to see Stannis and his amusing moods some more, so keeping him alive is key. Too bad we wont see him banter with Jon anymore. *snifs*

(Let's see if the forum doesn't SQL time out when I try to post anything now.)

[JD44Irish]

Very cool chapter. I loved the descriptions of the stores of food... it sounded like a lot but at the same time I was thinking like Jon was.... how the hell will this feed everyone?

I'm not sure how long the coming winter will be... how long can it be with these food supplies? The Wall is better provisioned that most of Westeros, so I see the battle against the Others having some time element to it whereby people are going to starve to death if they aren't defeated in time.

So does Jon really think Stannis will find support from the Glovers at Deepwood Motte? Or is he just getting rid of Stannis?

Also, whats up with those rubies? Mel can keep track of people with them? Sounds kind of like the obsidian candles. I wonder if she has rubies elsewhere? And is it a coincidence that Raegar had rubies with him on the Trident? Probably not, but they seem to be a more common and important stone than diamonds or emeralds.

[wolverine]

I'm finding myself slightly annoyed by Jon again. His strategy to send Stannis wandering around the Mountains sounds stupid to be frank. Certainly it's far-fetched. I'm shocked Stannis went along with it, but Jon's "special" so of course his plan will work.

...Kinda hope it fails TBH...

Also darn it I wanted Stannis to Stay At The Wall. Jon's chapters are made awesome by his droll humor and badassness.

Kind of agree here. If it were that easy to gain several thousand men, why wouldn't Robb had done the same before he went south? Does it have to be a KING to gain their allegiance?

[witless chum]

Kind of agree here. If it were that easy to gain several thousand men, why wouldn't Robb had done the same before he went south? Does it have to be a KING to gain their allegiance?

I think when Robb raised the North to go rescue his imprisoned father, he was in too much of a hurry to ride north and go through a week or two of politicking with wild cyrpto-Scots to get just a couple thousand more men. Stannis, a king from far away, is more exotic and interesting than the son of the Lord of Winterfell, which is all Robb was a the time, too.

[Goblonaut]

I think when Robb raised the North to go rescue his imprisoned father, he was in too much of a hurry to ride north and go through a week or two of politicking with wild cyrpto-Scots to get just a couple thousand more men. Stannis, a king from far away, is more exotic and interesting than the son of the Lord of Winterfell, which is all Robb was a the time, too.

So much this. I think it was mentioned somewhere, that Robb raised all the men that he could in short time, rather taking the cream of the top than all the strength of the north.

[Sandsnake]

I'm sick of Stannis, I really hope he gets killed off soon

[WildlingGirl]

"You haggle like a crone with a codfish, Lord Snow. Did Ned Stark father you on some fishwife?"

Dear George is playing with us big time *snigger*

[katno]

"Yum, Nothing beats a hot cup of horse blood on a cold night. I like mine with a pinch of cinammon sprinkled on top."

Oh Edd... Even though Stannis is leaving, at least we have good ole Dolorous Edd to keep Jon from getting too bogged down in angst!

Is it too much to ask for a little bit of hope for The Wall? Both Jon and Dany's chapters are becoming terminally grim :S

Loving the read though :D

[Tammy]

This chapter just continues to show how smart and observant Jon is. He's a great tactician, which should come in very handy in the war against the other. Just goes to show what a good job Ned did in teaching his sons. He's a bit wasted at the wall though.

[Morky_Pep]

It was Melisandre's vision that gave Jon the idea for the mountains and Deepwood Motte. When she described the wooden castle he recognized the Motte. Stannis and Mel could not find the correlation in the vision because they are not familiar in the north. Seing how Jon has never been south its not rediculous for him to give this counsel. Interesting because this shows how Mel is reading wrong what she sees in the flames.

Yes Robb moved very quickly and that is why he did not gather these mountain men. He also had 20 000 men so that seems like an already formidable number.

Im still not convinced of Mance Rayders death, the way he was acting before he was burned did not seem like him , even if he was jailed for a long time. In ACOK , jamie was imprisoned and thought himself to die , but he was still making jokes when Catelyn came to him. Obviously they are 2 different people but Mance seemed like a bad ass too (but he was a turncloak so that could give him cowardish characteristics). The horn of Jarumon seemed way to important to just be burned as well. The fact that Mel or Stannis did nothing when Jon shot Mance before he could burn suggests that it might not be him. Also, Stannis has been taking Jons advice, and he advised him to keep Mance. I think he did just that!

[Fletcher Will]

Im still not convinced of Mance Rayders death, the way he was acting before he was burned did not seem like him , even if he was jailed for a long time. In ACOK , jamie was imprisoned and thought himself to die , but he was still making jokes when Catelyn came to him. Obviously they are 2 different people but Mance seemed like a bad ass too (but he was a turncloak so that could give him cowardish characteristics). The horn of Jarumon seemed way to important to just be burned as well. The fact that Mel or Stannis did nothing when Jon shot Mance before he could burn suggests that it might not be him. Also, Stannis has been taking Jons advice, and he advised him to keep Mance. I think he did just that!

Well, not everyone faces death heroically. I actually don't think it would be that shocking that a man willing to show courage in battle and other circumstances might not face certain death so stoically. There are plenty of examples of heroic soldiers and political leaders who have disgraced themselves by their conduct at their death. The Duke of Monmouth comes to mind...

[Arya's Needle Work]

I thought Melisandre's vision was about Eastwatch?

[Rody]

Just read this chapter, and with Mel staying behind at the Wall in Jon, I hope they get some 1v1 time so Jon can show her some sense, since Stannis basically accepts anything she says, but not Jon

[Plem]

Just finished this chapter and I'm getting kind of annoyed by how GRRM makes Jon out to be this superhuman. His storyline is getting more and more far-fetched with every page I read. He betrays the wildlings and still gets the chance to climb the wall instead of just getting killed (I still have no clue why Mance thought it was a good idea to keep him alive), then he gets elected Lord Commander and now he is this awesome tactician all of a sudden. Might be I'm just being too sensitive because I never really liked him, but it's becoming pretty obvious that GRRM plans to make him the hero of this story.

[DurararaFTW]

Yeah, his intricate knowledge of Northern politics went a little too far here. Keep in mind, when Ned and Ser Rodrik didn't trust Jon with anything more then a wooden sword yet before he left with Benjen. You cannot tell me he was frequent visitor to the Dreadfort. This "I KNOW Dreadfort" is pretty silly. I guess his knowledge of the mountain clans can be attributed to him memorising every story Ned ever told him, but talking about Arnolf as "he was never the fighter his father was", is again, Jon talking as though he has first hand experience of the matter.

I can only hope it'll be revealed that Ned was planning on making Jon King one day after all and was grooming him for this position and gave theon and Robb the same lessons as to not make it as obvious. Then this chapter would be justified.

[The Hooded Man]

Just finished the chapter and I disagree about that. Jon and Robb learned a lot, and the same, from Ned. If Roob won every battle he fought, why can't Jon know a bunch of stuff about the north? Besides, Robb was risen to be the Lord of Winterfell, Warden of the North some day, so Ned probably taught them every little thing he knew about his country.

When Jon talks about Arnolf Karstark, it doesn't mean he knows a lot about the man, it might be just the general sense about him, or Ned's thoughts as well.