382 replies to this topic

[Sun]

I'm of the opinion that it was Big Walder who killed Little Walder. He was covered with his cousins blood, after all.

[Steve Moss]

Sun, on 17 July 2011 - 05:34 PM, said:

I'm of the opinion that it was Big Walder who killed Little Walder. He was covered with his cousins blood, after all.

So the Freys have added kin slaying to their list of sins?  I'm not sure of this.  For all the flack they take, they're the only friends they've got.  And wasn't Big Walder the decent one?

[BladeDancer]

Pamoya, on 17 July 2011 - 05:27 PM, said:

I think that Manderly killed Little Walder. His daughter, Wylla, was betrothed to Little Walder and I'm sure he didn't want that marriage to happen.

I think this is probably right. I think Manderly used the fact that there were already a series of mysterious murders (committed by the Spear-wives) to add another  murder to the list. It was an opportunist murder. Manderly wants revenge on the Freys. He does not want Walder marrying his daughter but cannot break the betrothal without rousing suspicions of disloyalty which at this time he is trying to hide. Also they are stuck in a castle that due to the blizzards means that there is ample opportunity to catch someone and murder them without any witnesses.

There is another possibility. Big Walder killed Little Walder because Little Walder had become influenced by Ramsey's cruelties. Little had either participated in Ramsey's crimes himself or had attempted to abuse/threaten Big Walder. Big Walder had defended himself/punished Little Walder and killed his kinsman.

[King_In_The_North]

Steve Moss, on 17 July 2011 - 05:40 PM, said:

So the Freys have added kin slaying to their list of sins?  I'm not sure of this.  For all the flack they take, they're the only friends they've got.  And wasn't Big Walder the decent one?

I thought Little Walder was the decent one?

[Blue Steel]

King_In_The_North, on 17 July 2011 - 05:48 PM, said:

I thought Little Walder was the decent one?

Big Walder was the one that Theon compared to a fox yet did not often participate in Little Walder's cruelties.

What makes me think Big Walder do it was the fact that he was quick to lay blame on the Manderlies by saying some Manderly soldier owed Little Walder money.

[Horza]

Greatness, on 17 July 2011 - 05:55 PM, said:

What makes me think Big Walder do it was the fact that he was quick to lay blame on the Manderlies by saying some Manderly soldier owed Little Walder money.

Yeah, only an innocent man would seek to deflect suspicion like that...

[Delta1212]

I remember being absolutely sure of who killed Little Walder while I was reading, to the point where I didn't even think it was in question, but now I couldn't even tell you who I thought did it, let alone why I thought that.

[Lily Valley]

Sherrit, on 15 July 2011 - 12:07 AM, said:

Weren't three Freys made into a pie?

I LOVED that bit.  There will never be enough payback for the Red Wedding, but this was a Beautiful start.  Best Pie Ever.

[O'san'gar's Razor]

The Ghost in Winterfell is a nice touch by Martin: mysterious deaths, plenty of parallels between the two stretches of murders, but with a logical non-supernatural perpetrator for both, but neither ever fully explained.

[rayvio]

we know that Little Walder was well on his way to becoming another Ramsay while Big Walder tended not to get involving in the psycho-fun. it's certainly possible the two could have clashed and Big Walder killed him in self defence or to defend someone else. even then though, he's hardly going to say "I'm a Kinslayer but it's ok because I had a good reason"

there is another possibility though. I can't remember exactly why but the mention of the silver coin he claimed to be owed got me thinking maybe somebody sent a Faceless Man after the Frey family

[MattTaz]

I think it was that hooded guy striding through the snow who saw Theon and his hand went to his dagger
'how is it you still breathe' when Theon showed him his hands he laughed and said something like
i'll leave you to him'
The spearwives and Mance were only sent to rescue Arya, I think killing people would draw unwanted attention

[Podrick + Arya = Win]

It was Tyler Durden.

First rule of Fight Club...
Second rule of Fight Club...

[The Snow King]

Steve Moss, on 17 July 2011 - 05:40 PM, said:

So the Freys have added kin slaying to their list of sins?  I'm not sure of this.  For all the flack they take, they're the only friends they've got.  And wasn't Big Walder the decent one?

They haven't 'added' kinslaying. It's been stated numerous times that with all the sons and long list of people that could inherit, there are quite a few that try to shorten it. Most Frey are not very sad when one of them dies, and often help it, directly on indirectly. I think most Freys are most afraid of their fellow Freys when it comes to assassination.

[Nymeriah]

Rickton! He and Shaggydog do not mess around.


In all seriouness I think it was a combination of the spearwives, theon and the manderlys. Although the murderers may have been channeling (or otherwise influenced by) Bran or the ghost of Ned.

[Brady]

Malt, on 13 July 2011 - 04:27 PM, said:

Big Walder is still alive. It was Little Walder who was killed, and quite possibly Big Walder who did the killing. Only on that murder, though - the other ones I thought it was clear that Mance's spearwives did it.

I thought this too. I dont think it was Manderly - too blatant and obvious. Little Walder was going bad, even for a Frey, so Big Walder, whose family is already accursed in the eyes of the gods for breaking guest right, figures what the fuck, a little kinslaying won't matter much. Also, in an earlier Reek chapter, Big Walder showed he was perturbed by Ramsay and the Bastard Boys cavalier attitue towards torture and murder. He can't take down a full grown man, but he can maybe manage a kid his own age, if he gets the jump on him.

[jack88]

MattTaz, on 18 July 2011 - 04:20 AM, said:

I think it was that hooded guy striding through the snow who saw Theon and his hand went to his dagger
'how is it you still breathe' when Theon showed him his hands he laughed and said something like
i'll leave you to him'
The spearwives and Mance were only sent to rescue Arya, I think killing people would draw unwanted attention

Man I forgot ALL about this.  Can someone fill me in on who that guy was meant to be?  Was it Abel/Mance?

[evanesco75]

I thought Little Walder was big physically, and not as vicious and abhorrent as Ramsay.

Big Walder was smaller, and meaner. And he killed LW, imo.

Or am I hopelessly confused?

[Brady]

evanesco75, on 18 July 2011 - 07:26 AM, said:

I thought Little Walder was big physically, and not as vicious and abhorrent as Ramsay.

Big Walder was smaller, and meaner. And he killed LW, imo.

Or am I hopelessly confused?

Big Walder is small in stature, and Little Walder (who is Merett's son I think?) is large for his age, yeah. But Little Walder was the mean and vicious one. Reek thinks of him as the worst of the two, because he'd gleefilly joined in on Ramsay's various activities.

[MattTaz]

jack88, on 18 July 2011 - 07:20 AM, said:

Man I forgot ALL about this.  Can someone fill me in on who that guy was meant to be?  Was it Abel/Mance?

Dont know who he is. But why write about him? Thats why I thought it must be him
The spearwives seemed pretty adamant it wasnt them

I have this fanboy dream its the Blackfish. Its not but it would be nice if it was

[DemiNymph]

Manderly shouldn't have snapped, but I can quite understand why he did. I'm glad he didn't die! It was classic cabin fever symptom for the whole of the Winterfell scenes. So halfway through, it felt like I was reading a cheesy hollywood slash flick who-dun-it thriller. I was so pissed that Ramsey didn't get killed.

Probably Ramsey did some of the killings to relive his psychotic urges, because Roose Bolton told him to be discreet. I don't think he killed the Frey.