56 replies to this topic

[Joke]

These Danaerys chapters are painful. This is really where I wish Martin had followed his plan to skip ahead five years. Dany's mistakes and angst and drama would've been much more interesting looking backwards AFTER she's become a bad-ass dragon-riding queen. In a Rocky movie, they'd cover this all in a sweet 2-minute training montage.

The only way I can see feeling that these Dany chapters were worthwhile is if Martin blows my mind and he kills her off as a result of some of these dumbshit decision, rather than have her lead her armies and dragons to the ultimate glory and fate I figure he has in store for her.

[luizfar]

Iotun, on 18 July 2011 - 04:34 PM, said:

Oh Dany, Dany, Dany. Why are you so naive, and so trusting. I'd bet Daario killed Ben with his own two hands and is ready to join the Yunkaii as we speak. Why are you so insecure and afraid...

I also think that Ben was far less likely to betray Dany than Daario.
I am certain he's plotting something.

That only makes Dany's story less interesting.

Edited by luizfar, 20 July 2011 - 10:14 PM.

[The Khal]

Joke, on 20 July 2011 - 05:05 PM, said:

These Danaerys chapters are painful. This is really where I wish Martin had followed his plan to skip ahead five years. Dany's mistakes and angst and drama would've been much more interesting looking backwards AFTER she's become a bad-ass dragon-riding queen. In a Rocky movie, they'd cover this all in a sweet 2-minute training montage.

The only way I can see feeling that these Dany chapters were worthwhile is if Martin blows my mind and he kills her off as a result of some of these dumbshit decision, rather than have her lead her armies and dragons to the ultimate glory and fate I figure he has in store for her.

I lol'd when I read this. I immediately though of Dany and Ser Barristan riding down the beach on Dragons while the Rocky theme was playing.

Seriously though, the Dany chapters in ADWD remind me of the Cersei chapers in AFFC, one epic stupidity after another. Lets take our entire upper echelon outside of the city into a festering cesspool of shit and flies and hope that we don't bring the bloody flux into town. Get the show on the road already. She should have looted Meereen when she took it, loaded up her Unsullied and Dragons and immediately headed for Westeros.

[MyDogIsNamedDanerys]

I thought this was the best Dany chapter yet.  She's finally acting boldly, which is when she thrives.  The last 4 chapters she's been sitting around her throne room doing nothing but worrying.  Now she finally left the city to show her people she cares.  THAT MATTERS.  A LOT.  

Yes, it's dangerous.  But so is being surrounded by a city full of people that mistrust you and think you don't care about them.

As for doing what Barristan says and going into battle?  He's a fool looking for glory, IMO.  And most of his advice is terrible (he's the one who's convinced her to stay away from her dragons because it's too dangerous).

So.  Daario.  Well, I'm actually quite happy she finally slept with him.  Resolution is what I wanted here, either by death or Dany finally getting some.  In my view, the former would have been better but the latter is OK too.  

I agree with those who say that perhaps Daario will betray her (or already has)... but I can't see it being a betrayal for love because I can't imagine that he loves her or is really capable of love.  Now...  On the other hand, I could see Jorah killing Daario when he arrives.  Now that would be a betrayal for love.  

So anyway, glad Dany is finally acting boldly again.

[TheEvilKing]

To be fair, Dany is surrounded by some pretty terrible advisors. Ser Barristan is brave, honourable, a great fighter but no politician. Reznak is Varys the Spider, except Varys is playing a role. Daario's a sellsword. Grey Worm is just a servant. Her bloodriders spout Dothraki nonsense. Skahaz seems like a fairly decent counsellor. Hizdar can't be trusted, nor can the Green Grace.

She needs Tyrion's brains, and probably Marwyn's knowledge too.

[Windchaser]

TheEvilKing, on 23 July 2011 - 12:10 AM, said:

To be fair, Dany is surrounded by some pretty terrible advisors. Ser Barristan is brave, honourable, a great fighter but no politician. Reznak is Varys the Spider, except Varys is playing a role. Daario's a sellsword. Grey Worm is just a servant. Her bloodriders spout Dothraki nonsense. Skahaz seems like a fairly decent counsellor. Hizdar can't be trusted, nor can the Green Grace.

She needs Tyrion's brains, and probably Marwyn's knowledge too.

She needs a better council, that's for sure. Tyrion for the win.

And Dothraki nonsense...Heh, that made me giggle. There is so much wisdom in the simple phrase: "It is known".
(I like to repeat that in conversations online and offline.)

[SJAG1983]

I got the feeling that Dany is FINALLY growing a pair (so to speak!) and the next chapter better have some badass dragons tearing some Yunkish a-holes a new one! And I'm really concerned that Drogon still hasn't returned....I'd think that Dany'd be a little more distraught than to have it as an afterthought. i don't care of there's riots going on around me, one of MY kids runs away, you'd better believe I'm dropping everything to get them back!

[The DragonKnight]

GoldenFleece, on 19 July 2011 - 11:16 AM, said:

Slut?  That seems harsh considering she has only slept with 3 people, one of them - her husband.

Hell if I had armies advancing from all directions with my death a high possibility I would some action before a possibly died, especially with a person I was crushing on for about a year.  Sure Daario is a bad guy, but tell me this ladies, have you never slept with a jerk who screwed you over when you were a teen?  Most girls have, its a learning process?  Daario is your typical bad guy, confident, handsome, dangeorus, exciting.

I think all you are being harsh on Dany.

The author could have made her the cliche princess who overcame every obstacle and was perfect in every way, but that would be boring.

She is human and she has flaws, mainly her youth.

Lets not forget she was not trained up to be a ruler, she was not even trained to be in court, she knows nothing of politics, she had to run and hide her whole life, her only constant companion a sadistic brother.  All she had was her name - and even that wasn't enough until she possessed 3 dragons.  This is her learning curve, and one hell of a steep one.

I think too many of you were expecting Dany to be a fairytale princess.

Excellent points! While she has a good heart and tries to do the right thing, she has not been educated in politics or on how to rule.  She's also what, 17 now? She's a young girl with enemies surrounding her, and her only measure of comfort is to share a bed with a man she's been crushing on for a good while now. Also, her councillors (Selmy excluded) aren't exactly the brighest bunch and seem to mostly be adivising her to do things to satisfy themselves, but she has to make due with what she's got.

[The DragonKnight]

Windchaser, on 24 July 2011 - 02:22 PM, said:

She needs a better council, that's for sure. Tyrion for the win.

And Dothraki nonsense...Heh, that made me giggle. There is so much wisdom in the simple phrase: "It is known".
(I like to repeat that in conversations online and offline.)

She definitely needs better counsel and a better council.  I'd like to see Tyrion advise her along with Ser Jorah, as he always had good things to say to her.

[Rhaenys]

Loras, on 15 July 2011 - 06:33 AM, said:

I'm gutted Daario isn't dead yet, but the line about never betraying her?  That seems a bit too much like Chekhov's gun to me.  My current theory is that Daario has murdered Brown Ben...

Thats what I have been thinking! My theory is that either Daario killed brown Ben, or Brown Ben  and his little band was captured by the enemy because of Daario, and Daario came back as a spy for the enemy.

Dracarys, on 20 July 2011 - 08:45 AM, said:

I just want her to listen to Barristan, she listens to all of these jerkoff Meerenese and doesn't follow a thing Barristan tells her.   If he gets the flux because of her then my whole love affair with Dany is over.

I know!! I was thinking that entire time "Dany you idiot, perhaps by some chance you don't get sick but you're bringing all the others with you and risking their asses too! Yet you claim to care about your people?". It seems she only really cares about those who are in the most trouble.

TheEvilKing, on 23 July 2011 - 12:10 AM, said:

To be fair, Dany is surrounded by some pretty terrible advisors. Ser Barristan is brave, honourable, a great fighter but no politician. Reznak is Varys the Spider, except Varys is playing a role. Daario's a sellsword. Grey Worm is just a servant. Her bloodriders spout Dothraki nonsense. Skahaz seems like a fairly decent counsellor. Hizdar can't be trusted, nor can the Green Grace.

She needs Tyrion's brains, and probably Marwyn's knowledge too.

I agree that her current set of advisors is really not that great, but I think give her Barristan and Tyrion together for both war and politics and that should hopefully straighten her out!

[George Snow]

AnotherDeadStark, on 17 July 2011 - 09:53 AM, said:

I find myself agreeing with you yet again Loras except that I'm not back in the Dany camp yet. Yes, she's finally realized she can't save everyone, and that's an important realization for her, but she's still being absolutely moronic regarding her advisors. Not only did she drag them out to the Astapori camp and make them help her feed them and burn their dead, but she just ignores everything they say in general. What is the point of councilors if you don't intend to ever consider their advice? She's just simply too stubborn.

She should have sacked the city and moved onto Westeros. Lingering in Meereen was the worst decision she could have made, and this becomes more and more apparent as her story arc progresses. I don't think GRRM would do this considering how much of the story has been invested into Dany, but I'd love to see her get killed here by the flux or by the Yunkai'i.

Oh, I also don't trust Daario. She's been really stupid with regards to him as well. I like the theory that he killed Brown Ben.

The problem is that she is still thinking like a teenager.  Robb had the same problem.  Jon is in the process of moving past that problem, because of advice that Maester Aemon gave him (Kill the Boy!).  

Dany is starting to learn that lesson, when by the end of the chapter, she says, "Close the Gates".  She's starting to act like a woman.  Of course, she goes right back to being a teenager (another Robb) when she sleeps with Daario.  But at least she's starting to grow up.

How are Tyrion and Jorah going to get into the city with the gates closed.  Unless one of them has experience with sneaking into Mereen.  

GH

[lezboyd]

One thing is for sure. Dany's chapters in this book are reminiscent of Arya's endless wanderings in ASoS, in that there is very less pay-off in following her story-arc. We knew, ever since J'qen Haghar gave Arya the iron coin, that she was going to be a faceless girl. But it took GRRM the entire ASoS to get her there. Same with Dany in this book. AFfC set up her story arc brilliantly - in addition to her own problems in Meereen, she would also have to deal with Westerosi who want her for her dragons. It has now been half-way through the book and still the payoff is nowhere in sight! It is just getting frustrating!!

Also, this locking up the dragons thing has the same sense of foreboding to it as Robb shunning his direwolf. With all the things that have been set up around Dany, this book better deliver the pay-off before it ends. I am wary of suffering another story-arc with so little pay-off.

P.S.: How many times did I use the word pay-off here, I wonder...

[BeanCounter]

Why is everyone so eager to believe at this point that Daario slew Brown Ben Plumm somehow?  Is it so hard to believe that Plumm switched sides?  The last conversation he had with Dany went something like, "Your Grace, you're surrounded on all sides by way too many enemies and can't possibly win... except you have your dragons.  You say dragons are out of the question?  Then let's loot the city and go.  No, not that either?  Then you can't win... but you can give me fresh horses and extra bags of gold, and I'll ride nonthreateningly toward your enemy's camp... yeah, that's it."

As for whether this is one of her three betrayals, I doubt it.  When a sellsword takes action with "mercenary" reasons, that's just to be expected, really.

[Lady Snark]

TheEvilKing, on 23 July 2011 - 12:10 AM, said:

To be fair, Dany is surrounded by some pretty terrible advisors. Ser Barristan is brave, honourable, a great fighter but no politician. Reznak is Varys the Spider, except Varys is playing a role. Daario's a sellsword. Grey Worm is just a servant. Her bloodriders spout Dothraki nonsense. Skahaz seems like a fairly decent counsellor. Hizdar can't be trusted, nor can the Green Grace.

She needs Tyrion's brains, and probably Marwyn's knowledge too.

Exactly.  I love the Dany chapters, because she is getting a crash course in how hard it is to rule.  It would have been the easy way out if she were to just abandon all the slaves she freed just so she could head back to Westeros to claim her throne.  I have more respect for Dany, because she is trying so hard to make the world a better place.  Her troubles are only compounded by the fact that she also has all these prophesies to deal with, which are so vague that it just leaves Dany being paranoid.  Poor Dany.  Things look grim, but I really hope she can get Mereen in order and bring peace to these people before she leaves.

[Tammy]

I'm seeing a bit of a parallel between Dany and Jon's chapters.  They're both young and trying to learn how to be commanders and deal with decisions that the people around them aren't fond of, but seem to be the right thing.

I'll just be happy when one of them meet up with Dany.  I was hoping for Quentyn in this chapter, but at least we got a mention of him, so here's hoping for the next chapter.

[carmocodran]

El Pinko Grande, on 15 July 2011 - 12:39 PM, said:

The Great Spring Sickness killed a bunch of Targs, including King Daeron II

Could u plz tell me where is this mentioned, thanks

[Nausicaä]

carmocodran, on 30 August 2011 - 05:01 AM, said:

Could u plz tell me where is this mentioned, thanks

The Sworn Sword, the second Dunk & Egg story.

[DanyStark]

Don't know if I'm happy that it finally happened with Daario... well I'll just have to let it unfold before me. With everything crazy that's going on around her at least she got some.

[Sunni]

Everyone posting wants Dany to go to Westeros, but what's likely to happen when she's there?  The dragons aren't big enough to ride.  No one knows she's alive.  Do you think that Stannis, Cersei, the other warring kings and assorted, starving small folk are just going to bow down because she's a Targaryen?

[Wise Westerosi]

BeanCounter, on 10 August 2011 - 04:05 PM, said:

Why is everyone so eager to believe at this point that Daario slew Brown Ben Plumm somehow?  Is it so hard to believe that Plumm switched sides?  The last conversation he had with Dany went something like, "Your Grace, you're surrounded on all sides by way too many enemies and can't possibly win... except you have your dragons.  You say dragons are out of the question?  Then let's loot the city and go.  No, not that either?  Then you can't win... but you can give me fresh horses and extra bags of gold, and I'll ride nonthreateningly toward your enemy's camp... yeah, that's it."

As for whether this is one of her three betrayals, I doubt it.  When a sellsword takes action with "mercenary" reasons, that's just to be expected, really.

LOL I love this summary of what must have been happening in Brown Ben Plumm's head.  So true.  Definitely shows that Dany does not have the experience to understand people.  At least this is realistic.  One can't expect a teenager to be world savvy.