81 replies to this topic

[PetrusOctavianus]

VarysTheSpider, on 20 July 2011 - 08:53 AM, said:

Regarding the drums, is it possible that it’s the northern clansmen? We know they could travel much better in the snows than Stannis’s main troops. If Roose’s men on the battlements can’t even see past the outer wall, they’d have huge problems fending off the northerners if they have the equipment to scale the walls.

It would be cool if the snow was so high that the clansmen could easily scale the walls, and they use winter camo like they used shrubbery as camo earlier.

[Lady Snark]

What a great chapter.  I was getting frustrated before wondering why Mance wasn't doing anything and then the mysterious deaths started happening.  Mance is the man.  Way to work up the tension and paranoia.  He is going to destroy them from the inside while Stannis attacks from the outside.  I really hope Theon finally just opens up and spills the beans to Mance once and for all.

Every time Bran communicates through the weirwoods, I just get goosebumps.  Now I am waiting for Bran to talk to Jon through one of the crows!

[Tammy]

This is probably my favorite chapter so far.  When all the deaths were happening, I was wondering why it felt so familiar and then Theon started thinking about how it reminded him of before.

Love that Mance and the spearwives are causing the trouble.  I think Mance knows the girl is not Arya.  He might have only spent a short time in Winterfell, but he's very observant.  I don't think that would pass him by.  I wonder if he'll try to save Jeyne anyway?

Roose started to show some fear or uneasiness was so awesome.  I'm oddly fascinated by his character, but I can't wait to see the Freys and Boltons come tumbling down.  I hope that he was wrong when he said that Theon didn't have it in him to betray his son.  I hope so much that Theon somehow, someway becomes strong enough to reap vengeance on him!

The scene in the godswood was chilling.

The North Remembers!

[I'm Unsullied]

OK I may get a few chuckles for saying this, but I believe that Theon would make a great Lord of Winterfell in the future.  I'm not thinking that he'll throw away his life, however miserable, in defense against Stannis or in some suicidal revenge against a Bolton.  I think he'll participate in the sabotage of the Bolton defense and live to be judged and possibly rewarded by Stannis.  Yeah I know Stannis would not forget his past transgressions but who knows, maybe he'll leave the castle in Theon's control for a while as he strikes out to consolidate the North.  

I've always thought Theon was good at heart, even after the Winterfell fiasco.  He has enough mistakes to make up for that I could see him rebuilding Winterfell into something special again and being quite just and fair in his rule of the castle.  In my mind he's always been more Stark than Greyjoy, and we've seen him start to drift to the old gods in this chapter.  Heck he never really identified with the drowned god in the first place.  Winterfell is his home.

[Tammy]

I, on 25 August 2011 - 08:39 AM, said:

In my mind he's always been more Stark than Greyjoy, and we've seen him start to drift to the old gods in this chapter.  Heck he never really identified with the drowned god in the first place.  Winterfell is his home.

I agree with this completely, and think it is evident in his internal dialogue abou this actions that he wanted to be a Stark or at least loved and accepted by them.

[David bc]

Brewmaster, on 24 July 2011 - 09:17 PM, said:

I don't think Bran can talk through the trees any more than any other greenseer can. We've seen that people often think they hear voices and sounds while praying at wierwoods since the first books, with Osha telling Bran to listen to the trees. I think the suggestion is that these sounds are greenseers, but that they can't make enough sounds to do more than spook people.

I don't think Bran is going to be any different in this respect.

But the trees have no concept of time, that could have been Bran talking to all those people in the past, even himself.

[David bc]

Any theories on who the guy with the dagger that confronted Theon was? He referred to him as Kinslayer... Which I thought was queer.

[Sandor's Wench]

Since Stannis uses trumpets, could the warhorn have been from the Mormont daughter that helped him take Deepwood Motte? I am not sure why she is helping him now. Anybody have any insight there?

So, who is the guy sulking around that I assume is killing people? When I first read these posts, I thought it was Mance, but when I thought more about their conversation, the guy seemed surprised to see Theon. So, who is it??

And why did Mance come on down to Winterfell instead of looking where ever he was supposed to for "Arya"?

[maestersfool]

I’m listening to the audio of this and what’s cool is how Roy Dotric changes Theon’s internal voice from meek Reek to arrogant punk Theon “Prince of Winterfell.” I didn’t put 2 and 2 together concerning Able. But it’s going to be really cool.

At first I was disappointed to find out that Theon survived at all, but I’m liking how his plot line is playing out, though I wouldn’t mind him losing a few more inches of skin for what he done!

[Tyrionthebest]

maestersfool, on 14 September 2011 - 12:46 PM, said:

I’m listening to the audio of this and what’s cool is how Roy Dotric changes Theon’s internal voice from meek Reek to arrogant punk Theon “Prince of Winterfell.” I didn’t put 2 and 2 together concerning Able. But it’s going to be really cool.

At first I was disappointed to find out that Theon survived at all, but I’m liking how his plot line is playing out, though I wouldn’t mind him losing a few more inches of skin for what he done!

So what has he done so bad that others beloved characters ( Jaime, Sandor) has done yet they were forgiven ?

[maestersfool]

Tyrionthebest, on 14 September 2011 - 03:57 PM, said:

So what has he done so bad that others beloved characters ( Jaime, Sandor) has done yet they were forgiven ?

Never said I liked Jamie or Sandor. Sandor was cool in a Darth Vaderish sort of way. A bad ass. I don't like Theon because he betrayed Rob. He sacked Winterfell. He's a turncloak. Then he expects the people to love him. He declares himself “Prince of Winterfell” when all he is is a douche. He’s unstable, almost bi-polar.

Don’t get me wrong, he’s a great literary character, and my reaction to him is based on how he had been played out. It’s Karma baby, yeah.

[Roose Boltons Bastard]

Is it possible that Theon is snuffing these guys out? It didn't occur to me until the morning after I read the chapter.

• He has freedom to walk the castle grounds and was known to have been in all of the places the murders occurred.
  
• He is clearly schitzo and Reek may not even know Theon is playing Rambo.
  
• He is armed
  
• He is familiar with Winterfell and all of the secret passages
  
• Mance was sent to deliver Arya, not to start an insurgenecy
  
• Since Stannis believes Mance is dead, and would probably be pissed to learn otherwise, why would Mance want to aid him?
  
• The spearwives and Mance probably suspect Theon, which is why they continue to try to talk to him.

I'm probably forgetting something and this will be dismissed as crackpot, but just my thought.


Also, since the trees have no concept of time, it could be that Bran is 150 years old when witnessing this. It is not necessarily in real time. And as a previous posted mentioned, when Osha told Bran to listen to the trees, it could've very well been his old self speaking to his young self.

Edited by Roose Boltons Bastard, 16 September 2011 - 09:18 AM.

[Spidey]

Roose Boltons Bastard, on 16 September 2011 - 09:16 AM, said:

Is it possible that Theon is snuffing these guys out?

That was my first thought during the godswood scene. I thought maybe Bran warged into Theon with the weirwoood as some kind of proxy, and committed the murders without Theon being aware of it.
Then again, Mance is the much more obvious choice.

[shaeyoufool]

I'm not a fan of Theon but I thought it was a beautifully written chapter and very mysterious. As one who lives in an area with some pretty bad winters, I thought he described it so well.
I had lots of questions. Who is the hooded man? I know there's a whole thread on it but I kind of want to wait til I finish the book before I go into it.
Also I'm not 100 % sure it was Mance and Co doing the killings. If they were sent to save Arya wouldn't they want to stay out of trouble-what if they were caught? Or were they doing it to cause unrest and create a distraction?

[Jennelyn]

It is yet to be seen whether Bran will be able to do what Bloodraven can't in regards to seeing through the weirwood trees. So far it's just been a voice in the leaves which is typical from what the 3EC said. Him seeing Bran's face was interesting. Could just be Theon's imagination, but then again...

I suspect Mance and spearwives are doing the killing as well, and may even be messing with them with the war horn and drums. I suppose it could be the mountain clans or some other army. I don't think Stannis has arrived.

Can't wait to find out what Mance has in store for Theon. His confession has been heard.

[Laohu]

I have a few questions and comments after reading this chapter.

1. Why did the lords want to see Theon's hands? Was it just to confirm his inability to wield a weapon? That seems odd to me. He is skin and bones, not to mention that he has to hobble around everywhere because of the missing toes on his foot.

2. What is the extent of Bran's perception with the trees? I understand this is a difficult question to answer. Do you think he can just see through the eyes of the weirwood faces? This would considerably limit his view to see what is going on around the godswood, so I am inclined to think he has a sort of omniscient perception where he can see things within a certain radius of the trees.

3. I am not sure why people think Theon would be accepted as a lord. He is incapable of fathering heirs, so he has quite a handicap in that regard. This obviously do not keep him from ruling his subjects in a just manner, but I still think people would find his lack of a penis to be a difficult pill to swallow.

[Reynes-of-Castermere]

Some thoughts on the questions above...

1)  Perhaps it is the idea he wouldn't be able to wield a sword. But who put that idea into their heads? Roose. If I was Roose, I would have gathered them, told them this and then showed them all Theon's ruined hands. It seems a good reminder to the gathered Lords that the Boltons are to be feared... Maybe the shock might reveal the source of the killings in a weird reaction...

2) Difficult to answer... Though the previous chapter may hold some answers... Arya uses the cat as her eyes to discover who was attacking her. In this she shows an ability to be both in the cat to see the Kind Man, but in her own body to strike him with her stick. Bran being seemingly stronger due to his paralysis should be able, theoretically, to be both a tree and a nearby raven. If the ravens are able to talk, and we are told they once spoke the messages of their Lords, he should be able to both talk to people and see them from multiple angles. This theory though falls down on the issue of time as he wouldn't be able to influence past or future events, so he would need to be able to control the visions and select present ones to use this communication method....

3) I would refer you to Lord Varys. A Eunuch from teen-hood and rose to be a Lord and the Master of Spies. Although he would not be able to father trueborn sons, he was a man of easy morals and well known for his love of whores. If one was to appear with a baby Kraken (real or imagined) he would be able to raise them to the Lordship as per Roose Bolton's Bastard...

Just my thoughts though...

[Rody]

Who was the mysterious guy though with the hood?

[never trust a bard]

I'm really loving the Theon chapters.  It's funny that there were so many hints at Mance being Abel, but I had to re-read chapter summaries before I picked up on it.  As for Bran in the weirwoods ... gave me the creeps (in a good way).  Especially when he glimpsed Bran's face for a second.  If I were Theon, I probably would have ran away crying in terror.  I definitely think Bran can communicate through the trees.  I know the three-eyed crow said he couldn't, but I'm thinking he was wrong.  What I don't know is "when" Bran is seeing this.  It could be now or it could be in 10 years, since Bran can see the past in the trees.  Not sure how useful Bran's "powers" really are yet.  Anyway, after reading this, I'm ready to see Mance take action.

[Born by Fire]

Bran is crippled and already going into the trees.  I think the odds of a great big Stark reunion at the COTF compound are not likely.  So...

I have to believe that Bran will go past his predecessor Greenseers and actually use the trees and dreams to communicate.  He's already reached out to Jon through his dreams/warging.  Jon saw him as a tree. And clearly Theon heard something...

Bran may end up a wooden man, but I think he's also going to end up being central intelligence in the next war for the dawn...