46 replies to this topic

[Xray the Enforcer]

pg 618

[ipsuel]

I've been whining and complaining (lol, sorry!) about the sheer boredom from Dany's 'travels' -- just too much inaction, too many redundant details, and too many people in her story that I don't care about at all.

Sadly, I now feel the Tyrion character (my fave) is going down the same path. Yes, there is action happening... unnecessary, redundant, and to me, quite boring.

The Penny bit is cliche, Tyrion himself seems to have lost some of his edge and honestly, seems like I can read just the first and last sentences of the chapters and skip the rest.

What I loved about this series was the Westeros, and its fate being left up in the air. Wars, political marriages and family tribulations were what got me into this series.

I know it will be an unpopular opinion, but I am sick to death of Mereen and Yunkai and all those other places.

[Momo]

ipsuel, on 15 July 2011 - 07:15 PM, said:

-snipped by me-

I know it will be an unpopular opinion, but I am sick to death of Mereen and Yunkai and all those other places.

I am, too. At least with Tyrion there's something happening. With Dany it's just stagnation. I understand her moral qualms and indecisiveness, but I feel like I'm getting hit over the head it.

[Loras]

There is so much going on in this Tyrion chapter that I don't even know where to start.  Tyrion's story is very straightforward here, its about atoning for his crimes, accepting who he is and accepting responsibility for his father's death and his actions.  'Dragons' has been such a great character story for Tyrion, maybe his best yet!

But other than that... what is going on in this chapter:

* Cyvasse remains an important motif.  I am beginning to wonder whether Tyrion's role in the story is going to be to set up the return of the Targaryen's, he gave Aegon sage advice which has caused him to move his 'elephants' into position - now he just needs to bring his dragon into play.  Also its important to remember that in Cyvasse a trebuchet can kill a dragon.  Note in the camp that Yunkai has 6 trebuchets...

* Tyrion's read on Brown Ben shows just how little Dany understands people compare to what she thinks she knows.  Again it comes back to Dany judging people entirely by appearance without seeing the substance beneath them.  I really like how Martin has shown us two different character's takes on the same man.

* Jorah - he is a broken man now, I feel sympathy for him and I hope that Tyrion and he can come up with a way to get themselves out of the current situation.

* The descriptions of those grotesques seems familiar?  Did we hear about them in one of the earlier chapters?  Maybe 'The Windblown'?

* Also i'm really intrigued about the payoff with the mushrooms... it must be coming soon.

* And the flux still rages on...

[Kirazi]

Meh. I agree with a lot of your points Loras, and I think when we delve deeper, there is a lot of substance there - but these chapters aren't as fun to read as they used to be

[Doran]

I'm with Loras here, great chapter.

In particular, I loved the way Tyrion made Jorah part of their show. "The bear and the maiden fair" started as some random bawdy song, has been with us as an atmospheric set piece for three novels already (I just looked it up, it's sung in Clash, Storm and Feast). Now, suddenly, it became a plot device! Fantastic writing IMHO.

And (because I don't think anyone has mentioned it yet) the first sentence provides confirmation of Mel having been sold as a slave as a child. But I guess that's what we were all assuming anyway.

[malarky1231]

I agree that the cyvasse games are motifs and tell us a lot about the players playing them. I have bad feelings about all the sellswords, especially plumm and Daario. In fact it seems plumm is plotting something that would involve Tyrion. The whole slave army is a joke, as is their leaders. Every description we get is about some old crone who looks like a prune. Or some oversized noble who has to be carried on a litter. Also their names all sound the same to me, and all of them are so forgettable. The real action is in Westeros, and the sooner our characters get back, the better.


However it seems events are building up to a head. All these slow chapters are pointing to the climax, where all these characters converge on Mereen. It's interesting knowing all these details before we get there

[Hooplehead]

Loras, on 16 July 2011 - 11:14 AM, said:

* The descriptions of those grotesques seems familiar?  Did we hear about them in one of the earlier chapters?  Maybe 'The Windblown'?

I definitely remember those descriptions, too.  But I forget which chapter they were in.

[Doran]

Loras, on 16 July 2011 - 11:14 AM, said:

* The descriptions of those grotesques seems familiar?  Did we hear about them in one of the earlier chapters?  Maybe 'The Windblown'?

Ser Moses Hightower, on 20 July 2011 - 07:56 AM, said:

I definitely remember those descriptions, too.  But I forget which chapter they were in.

It's in "The Windblown", yes, where Quentyn & Co. learn about the Yunkish masters.

[The Oncoming Storm]

Poor Jorah. He needs a hug, although he kinda deserved this. Tyrion and his good heart!

[Valmy]

ipsuel, on 15 July 2011 - 07:15 PM, said:

I know it will be an unpopular opinion, but I am sick to death of Mereen and Yunkai and all those other places.

Well 'sick to death' is a bit of an overstatement but my feeling for most of this book is 'get on with it!' I have been excited since Dany 2 for all these people to start arriving in Meereen and the fireworks to begin but so far...it just always seems just over the hill....just the next chapter.

[Valmy]

Loras, on 16 July 2011 - 11:14 AM, said:

* And the flux still rages on...

It almost led to me think maybe Dany kept the Flux infested slaves alive outside the city just so it would infect the besieging force...

[LannisterStark]

ipsuel, on 15 July 2011 - 07:15 PM, said:

The Penny bit is cliche, Tyrion himself seems to have lost some of his edge and honestly, seems like I can read just the first and last sentences of the chapters and skip the rest.

I disagree with this statement. The Penny part of the story is not "cliche". GRRM is finally allowing us to see how Tyrion interacts with another dwarf. For most of the series, we see Tyroin interact with "big people". This is a new and different aspect of Tyrion Lannister's character.

[The_North_Remembers]

So if Mel was sold as a slave, does anyone remember if she was ever described as having a slave tattoo on her face?

[Doran]

The_North_Remembers, on 26 July 2011 - 05:49 PM, said:

So if Mel was sold as a slave, does anyone remember if she was ever described as having a slave tattoo on her face?

She almost certainly isn't.  But that could be some form of Glamour.

[Completely Headless Ned]

Jorah is getting a taste of his own medicine . he was banned from Westeros for getting involved in slaves and now he is a slave himself. I do hope that they get loose though.

[ThinPaperWings]

I was glad something was happening outside Meereen instead of talk.  The slave auction and the dinner moved nicely, a nice change from Tyrion sitting around on boats.

[FuliginEyes]

I enjoyed this chapter - yes a good break from Tyrion travelling on boats. And to see the Yunkai camps around Meereen was very interesting.

[Bale Dayne]

Did I read correctly at the end of the chapter that a peace was signed?

[PetrusOctavianus]

REID1990, on 29 July 2011 - 12:53 AM, said:

Jorah is getting a taste of his own medicine . he was banned from Westeros for getting involved in slaves and now he is a slave himself. I do hope that they get loose though.

A nice case of poetic justice.

I can't help it, but I picture Tyrion's, Penny's and Jorah's owner as Jabba the Hut.