17 replies to this topic

[Xray the Enforcer]

pg 783

[malarky1231]

No replies? This chapter wasn't that bad. Looks like the work of the green grace.

[Andhaira]

Great chapter. It's so damn COOL to have Selmy as a POV. Though I am a bit annoyed he doesn't think about Ned's execution and explain why he didn't jump to save Ned when the Goldcloaks betrayed him. I mean, Barristan knew what were Roberts final commands. (I think At least, in the show Barristan read the letter before Cersei tore it up)

[The BlackWolf]

Andhaira, on 22 July 2011 - 08:29 AM, said:

Though I am a bit annoyed he doesn't think about Ned's execution and explain why he didn't jump to save Ned when the Goldcloaks betrayed him. I mean, Barristan knew what were Roberts final commands. (I think At least, in the show Barristan read the letter before Cersei tore it up)

Interesting thought, never looked at it like that- I wonder if that will be his justification if/when the time comes to fight Hizdahr.  

Love seeing things from Barristan's POV- he is feeling his age but doesn't ever show it, and he is in that Davos/Brienne category of being truly noble and honourable to their cause.

[Asha—Not Yara!]

Selmy's not stupid. There's no way he could have saved Ned and would have just be killed alongside him.

[VarysTheSpider]

I really liked the idea that the Dornishmen tried to poison Hizdahr, but it seems Quentyn didn't have any involvement in it.

But yes... I don't think our Prince of Dorne is long for the world. I think there may well be a confrontation between Quentyn and Victarion, and I'm betting on the guy with the dragon-taming horn thing.

[All-for-Joffrey]

malarky1231, on 21 July 2011 - 01:00 PM, said:

No replies? This chapter wasn't that bad. Looks like the work of the green grace.

How come? She's probably complicit in the whole Hizdahr-sons of the harpy-yunaki'i conspiracy but I don't see any direct evidence in this chapter that points to her as the mastermind behind it. It seems like a Hizdahr/Reznak/Wise Master (and maybe Bloodbeard) concoction.

I think not having his precious king or queen around is good exercise and training for Selmy as it encourages him to engage in the art of critical thinking, something he's actually capable of as this chapter showed.

Quote

Great chapter. It's so damn COOL to have Selmy as a POV.  Though I am a bit annoyed he doesn't think about Ned's execution and explain why he didn't jump to save Ned when the Goldcloaks betrayed him. I mean, Barristan knew what were Roberts final commands. (I think At least, in the show Barristan read the letter before Cersei tore it up)

I don't recall the specifics from the show but in the books he didn't read the letter and Ned was the only one who knew what it said. As far as Selmy was concerned, Ned could just be playing the game of thrones and making up a lie to put Stannis in court and get rid of Lannister influence, as it's no secret that there had been rapidly boiling blood between the Starks and the Lannisters. You have to remember that we, as readers, know the truth of what happened with the twincest and Bran attacks and Tyrion abduction and everything in between in AGOT because it's told almost entirely through Stark POVs. However, to an objective, non-Stark observer, it's impossible to tell who was telling the truth and who the main instigator was, particularly to a man like Barristan who doesn't like puzzling through these things and is trained simply to follow orders. Think of how Cat abducting Tyrion on the King's Road must have looked to everyone who didn't know that LF lied about him being behind the attack on Bran. This seems like something that he needs to attone for to us, as readers and Stark fans, but in the reality of Barristan's world, he was just doing his duty to who he thought the rightful king was and therefore justifiably feels no guilt about it.

Edited by All-for-Joffrey, 26 July 2011 - 07:00 PM.

[Tammy]

I feel so sorry for Quentyn.  I like Selmy's thoughts about the fire and the mud and how fools, children and young girls always pick the fire.  

He offered Quentyn some good advice though maybe he's more fire than he thought.  Seems like he's going to be stubborn and stay though.

[DanyStark]

I love Barristan the Bold! Honor, duty, doing what is right....ahh Ned I miss ya.

[milquetoast]

Soooo I guess everyone knows about Dany and Daario

[Laohu]

milquetoast, on 17 December 2011 - 12:33 AM, said:

Soooo I guess everyone knows about Dany and Daario

Well, Daenerys did not exactly try to hide it, did she? You might also remember that the Green Grace had a comment about it the day before the royal wedding. From what Barristan was trying to say to Quentyn, a paramour is relatively common even among noble families.

[Crown]

I'm having trouble remembering all those names from the Mereenese and the Yunkai'i. However, I like the Mereen chapters from Selmy's POV more than Daenerys her POV, his observations are interesting.

Like somebody said above, about his honor, I miss Ned aswell. After all this time? Always.

[protar]

Crown, on 19 March 2012 - 06:25 AM, said:

I'm having trouble remembering all those names from the Mereenese and the Yunkai'i. However, I like the Mereen chapters from Selmy's POV more than Daenerys her POV, his observations are interesting.

Like somebody said above, about his honor, I miss Ned aswell. After all this time? Always.

Was the Harry Potter quote intentional?

[Crown]

protar, on 20 March 2012 - 02:11 PM, said:

Was the Harry Potter quote intentional?

Yeah, it was.

[The Sun's Son]

Not many replies here but I guess it was to be expected for such a short chapter.

Can't wait to see Barristan and the Shavepate's plan carried out...hopefully it goes right although there are never any guarantees with GRRM. Hizdahr really punked out when the Wise Masters presented him with Groleo's head (RIP). Although the Dornishmen were not right in wondering why they should be frightened by him. He may not have had the courage to stand up to Bloodbeard and the others but he is definitely capable of sending a few Brazen Beasts to await the Dornishmen in their rooms.

Very fitting that a Quentyn chapter is next. Let's see if he decides to heed Barristan's advice. My guess would be a resounding no.

[Intrepid]

Whose side is Hizdahr really on? Is he with Volantis. or the Yunkai? or both?

I'm Confused about why Hizdahr Zo Loraq is still hostile with Yunkai and their sellsword companies and vice versa after Daenery's disappearence.  On page 739 in "The Queensguard" it says that Hizdahr is friends with the Wise Masters (Yunkai) and that he will open his gates to Volantis.  And at the beginning of "Tyrion XI"  it says that Some Yunkish lords are only bidding their time until Volantis arrives befor they break the piece.  If Volantis is friends with Yunkai and Hizdahr is friends with the Wise Masters then why are they all still hostile around each other?  I know that some of them like Bloodbeard want to shed blood for plunder befiore Volantis arrives ,but he is also friends with Yunkai who are friends with Hizdahr.

What am I missing here?

[~khaleesi~]

malarky1231, on 21 July 2011 - 01:00 PM, said:

No replies? This chapter wasn't that bad. Looks like the work of the green grace.

Can someone please explain this further??? What is the Green Grace involved in exactly??

[Bad Hound!]

Intrepid, on 06 October 2012 - 12:14 PM, said:

Whose side is Hizdahr really on? Is he with Volantis. or the Yunkai? or both?

I'm Confused about why Hizdahr Zo Loraq is still hostile with Yunkai and their sellsword companies and vice versa after Daenery's disappearence.  On page 739 in "The Queensguard" it says that Hizdahr is friends with the Wise Masters (Yunkai) and that he will open his gates to Volantis.  And at the beginning of "Tyrion XI"  it says that Some Yunkish lords are only bidding their time until Volantis arrives befor they break the piece.  If Volantis is friends with Yunkai and Hizdahr is friends with the Wise Masters then why are they all still hostile around each other?  I know that some of them like Bloodbeard want to shed blood for plunder befiore Volantis arrives ,but he is also friends with Yunkai who are friends with Hizdahr.

What am I missing here?

You're not missing anything, but I think the situation is complicated because no one trust anyone else.

The Yunkish, Ghiscari, Qartheen on one side and Hizdahr on the other side probably did come to some sort of agreement, and yes it probably involves opening the city to Volantis, and restoring the old world order, with fighting pits, slave trading etc. But there are several people jostling for position in this post-Dany world. Hizdahr clearly wants to stay king/master of the city. Some Yunkish lords might have different plans. And the sellsword companies captain want a piece of the cake too. Bloodbeard specifically is ambitious and basically everyone wants to be in a strong position when the Volantene arrive, so that they end up with a big portion of the cake that the Volantene will divide up.

Classic behaviour when an alliance of very different parties is involved in winning something. When the victory is achieved, and the post-victory terms are sufficiently vague and open to debate, then people will fight to get the best deal for themselves. As a parallel, see the overly long and protracted negociations in the Congress of Vienna that followed Napoleon's defeat in 1815, where the Prussians, English, Austrians, Russians and the smaller Italian states argued for months on end on who gets what.