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[ADWD SPOILERS] Epilogue


Xray the Enforcer

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So why did Varys kill Pycelle, killing Kevan makes sense because he was too competent and was a danger to Aegon, but can't think of any gain in killing Pycelle

Pycelle was loyal to House Lannister and pretty much the only advisor that Cersei had who was actually worth anything. Now the Citadel will have to send a new maester, who will probably be a Tyrell.
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So why did Varys kill Pycelle, killing Kevan makes sense because he was too competent and was a danger to Aegon, but can't think of any gain in killing Pycelle

Pycelle is a Lannister loyalist.

WRT the Targaryen succession, IIRC, it's a bit fluid who inherits. In the absence of any Salic law, I should have thought Dany would have a stronger claim than Aegon. She is the last surviving child of the former King, rather than the last surviving child to the former heir to the throne.

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Pycelle was loyal to House Lannister and pretty much the only advisor that Cersei had who was actually worth anything. Now the Citadel will have to send a new maester, who will probably be a Tyrell.

no, pycelle was worthless to cersei and she stated it on several occassions. before she was thrown in the clink she was close to getting rid of him. her most effective advisor was qyburn who was thrown off of the small council at the request of pycelle, who hated him.

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no, pycelle was worthless to cersei and she stated it on several occassions. before she was thrown in the clink she was close to getting rid of him. her most effective advisor was qyburn who was thrown off of the small council at the request of pycelle, who hated him.

Cersei thinks he is worthless because she's an idiot. And also because he does see that she's an idiot.

Now, of course, why Pycelle is such a Lannister loyalist was never answered.

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From what I've seen of him so far, I don't share Varys' faith in Aegon's abilities.

While he clearly has courage, in that he wants to lead the attack on Storm's End, his behaviour towards Lord Connington, who really has sacrificed everything for him, is pretty contemptible.

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From what I've seen of him so far, I don't share Varys' faith in Aegon's abilities.

While he clearly has courage, in that he wants to lead the attack on Storm's End, his behaviour towards Lord Connington, who really has sacrificed everything for him, is pretty contemptible.

Agreed. Aegon is something of a conundrum to me because while he wants to exude all these noble qualities in leading the charge to re-take his homeland, like more than just a few GRRM characters he's susceptible to pride and hubris. In the end it may take both superior advisors (plus Kings Landing insiders) and military commanders like Connington if he is to win the Iron Throne at all.

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Wondering if Jon Snow could be the true born Aegon. Perhaps L had the baby and was trying to escape with him when she was gravely injured. The promise from brother could have been to keep him safe and hidden.

It seems to fufill the prophecy something must happen at dragonstone. I think that is where the red woman will take Jon Snow.

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Pycelle is a Lannister loyalist.

WRT the Targaryen succession, IIRC, it's a bit fluid who inherits. In the absence of any Salic law, I should have thought Dany would have a stronger claim than Aegon. She is the last surviving child of the former King, rather than the last surviving child to the former heir to the throne.

That's not how it works. The succession laws have been explained pretty well thanks to the Frey's. The children of the heir become the next heir upon their parents' death. It doesn't jump to the sibling of the deceased, it jumps to their child.

Wondering if Jon Snow could be the true born Aegon. Perhaps L had the baby and was trying to escape with him when she was gravely injured. The promise from brother could have been to keep him safe and hidden.

It seems to fufill the prophecy something must happen at dragonstone. I think that is where the red woman will take Jon Snow.

Why would Aegon look like a Stark? Elia was Dornish, Rheagar was Targaryan, pretty much as far from Stark as you can get.

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That's not how it works. The succession laws have been explained pretty well thanks to the Frey's. The children of the heir become the next heir upon their parents' death. It doesn't jump to the sibling of the deceased, it jumps to their child.

Thanks.

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He tried to convince Lord Tywin to send City Watch deserters to the Wall, citing "disturbing reports"...

I think Varys honestly wants to destroy the ruling elite in the name of the common people. He himself fell victim to some sick rich asshole as a child, after all. A good-intentioned Targaryen king, raised in (relative!) poverty and obscurity, may be just what's needed to save Westeros.

I agree and it goes along with how Dany rules and how Jon commands the wall, even Tyrion was trying to look after the people.

I'm sad that Kevan is dead; I really liked him.

It was interesting that there was no letter from the north proclaiming the defeat of Stannis. Usually the wall is the last to know and Roose certainly would have sent a raven to KL to inform them of his demise. Further, possible, proof that the letter was a complete sham.

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I agree and it goes along with how Dany rules and how Jon commands the wall, even Tyrion was trying to look after the people.

I'm sad that Kevan is dead; I really liked him.

It was interesting that there was no letter from the north proclaiming the defeat of Stannis. Usually the wall is the last to know and Roose certainly would have sent a raven to KL to inform them of his demise. Further, possible, proof that the letter was a complete sham.

The absence of the usual piece of flayed human skin (which Ramsay would surely have taken from a prisoner) makes me wonder if the letter came from him at all.

I'm doubtful if Varys wants to overthrow the entire social system, but I think he's sincere in what he says to Ser Kevan.

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The absence of the usual piece of flayed human skin (which Ramsay would surely have taken from a prisoner) makes me wonder if the letter came from him at all.

I wonder too. My thoughts are Mance sent it.

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As another contribution to figuring out the laws of determining heirs, don't forget the passage where Petyr Baelish explains to Sansa about where Harry the Heir got his nickname. It's all there in one place for us to follow along with, in constrast to the Frey situation that's just mentioned in passing and scattered throughout all the books. If your theory of inheritance is inconsistent with Petyr's explanation, then you're not thinking in the ways of Westeros.

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As another contribution to figuring out the laws of determining heirs, don't forget the passage where Petyr Baelish explains to Sansa about where Harry the Heir got his nickname. It's all there in one place for us to follow along with, in constrast to the Frey situation that's just mentioned in passing and scattered throughout all the books. If your theory of inheritance is inconsistent with Petyr's explanation, then you're not thinking in the ways of Westeros.

You know, I completely forgot about this. I remember when reading it getting turned around and deciding that I didn't care, but now it appears it was actually important and I should go reread the section!

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Here is all you need to know about how heirs are determined - the one with the biggest army (or baddest dragons) is the heir. If Aegon wins the throne (1 Targ w/o dragons) and Dany finally gets off her butt and lands in Westeros with her 3 dragons in tow, she'll have one "strong" claim to the throne. People will follow the woman with the dragons and shun the boy without them - no matter how good a claim he has.

Plus I'm leaning towards Aegon being a not-targ and a sham. I could see him gaining power then turning into a complete Joff-tool.

And one last thing - I'd like to welcome Cersei back into the game. Once the trial is over I'm sure she'll have her old influence back, although I'm not so sure it will be her old personality. That walk had to have an effect on her, no matter how strong-willed she appears.

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If Varys, and I assume Illyrio, have been planning and grooming Aegon to get back on the throne, why would Illyrio give the dragon eggs to Dany? He must have had some idea a Targ could hatch them. If Aegon is truly a Targ and was their "plan A", like it appears, why not give him the eggs?

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If Varys, and I assume Illyrio, have been planning and grooming Aegon to get back on the throne, why would Illyrio give the dragon eggs to Dany? He must have had some idea a Targ could hatch them. If Aegon is truly a Targ and was their "plan A", like it appears, why not give him the eggs?

I don't know that anyone was certain they would even hatch. How long had dragons been out of the world? Hadn't some Targs tried to hatch eggs in the past and failed? Anything's possible with Illyrio and Varys, but it could have just been a gift. It will be interesting to see their motivations though.

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Oh Varys: "a humble vaudevillian veteran cast vicariously as both victim and villain by the vicissitudes of Fate. This visage, no mere veneer of vanity, is a vestige of the vox populi, now vacant, vanished. However, this valorous visitation of a bygone vexation stands vivified and has vowed to vanquish these venal and virulent vermin vanguarding vice and vouchsafing the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition! The only verdict is vengeance; a vendetta held as a votive, not in vain, for the value and veracity of such shall one day vindicate the vigilant and the virtuous" ~~ V for Vendetta.

He had me fooled and I would of perished under his guile as well. I loved him because he was "for the realm" and then he finally shows his teeth. Game of Thrones indeed.

I'm not much for the Tyrells and I can't root for Littlefinger, so lets hope Tyrion gets back to player status and Sansa can bring the downfall of Littlefinger.

Great Epilogue.

Any guesses who dies in the next prologue?

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  • 3 weeks later...

Yes, Daenerys is the first in line to the Iron Throne, then Aegon.

It is known.

But I suspect Varys didn't intend for Dany to be very helpful to his cause. Maybe hatch some eggs and that'd be that. Possibly he'd acquired them for Viserys, but when it became obvious good old "wake the dragon" had a little too much of dear old dad in him, decided to give them away to Dany as wedding presents and see what comes of it.

Which makes me wonder if he/Illyrio doesn't have a cache of dragon eggs hidden away somewhere. If they're so precious that selling them would buy an army large enough to invade Westeros and take the throne, a navy large enough to transport them all, and the weapons to arm them all, then I can't see Varys risking them on Dany if he didn't have more to give to Aegon.

The irony for me is that seeing what a little shit the well-trained Aegon is, even after all GRRM's done to bore me to tears with her, knowing that Varys is pushing Aegon makes me root for Dany again, just because.

I'm pretty sure Illyrio and Varys had no idea the dragon eggs would hatch. They were fossilized for at least 100 years. Maybe they were given as a wedding gift to be eventually sold to fund a fleet to bring Kahl Drogo's army to Westros. If they have a cache of dragon eggs somewhere, it would be like having a cache of Picassos or moon rocks...priceless, but useless.

The hatching of the dragons likely was a result of a combination of unlikely events: Blood magic (death of Rhogo, Drogo, and the witch tied to the pyre) & a girl that could not be burnt to be their mother.

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