173 replies to this topic

[Free Man]

nightshadow, on 08 July 2012 - 11:50 PM, said:

Varys is my favourite character by far...just something about him so I was happy to see him return but then sad to see Kevan die like that..he might have restored KL back to its old state before war broke out.

That is exactly why Varys appeared... That was the one thing he was trying to prevent... Kevan reconciled their differences with the Tyrells, and peace and prosperity seemed to be around the corner... He could not allow that, so killed both Pycelle and Kevan... Cersei would think it was the Tyrells, and we will have another war on our hands pretty soon... It was Varys intention to have the kingdom in chaos when Targaeryans arrive, so it would be easier for them to take the rest out one by one, while exausted by wars. Kevan had to go, he was the perfect regent at the moment, it seemed.

[justashadow]

Free Man, on 09 July 2012 - 04:40 AM, said:

That is exactly why Varys appeared... That was the one thing he was trying to prevent... Kevan reconciled their differences with the Tyrells, and peace and prosperity seemed to be around the corner... He could not allow that, so killed both Pycelle and Kevan... Cersei would think it was the Tyrells, and we will have another war on our hands pretty soon... It was Varys intention to have the kingdom in chaos when Targaeryans arrive, so it would be easier for them to take the rest out one by one, while exausted by wars. Kevan had to go, he was the perfect regent at the moment, it seemed.

I just thought Kevan would have been a good "Hand".  That makes perfect sense. Yet again, Varys is a character that yields a lot of power and i wonder if how he  used LF to set up the  the war between the Stark and Lannisters. Each man had their own motives but Varys knows more than he is telling us. He'd be an interesting  POV.

[Mista C]

What a fantastic ending!  The Epilouge may have been one of my favorite chapters from the book!  Kevan getting murdered was a complete shock to me, and then seeing Pycelle dead on his desk was an even bigger shock.  Then Varys making his first appearance since the end of ASOS was the biggest shock of all!  Earlier in the book I was wondering about him, but kinda forgot about him by the end.  I just figured that we would not see him again until TWOW.

I really enjoyed reading this book, regardless of what others have said about it.  But, I am what I guess you would call a "new" reader, in that I did not start reading this series until after I had watched Season 1 of the show last year.  So I have had the luxury of being able to read the first five books back-to-back-to-back-to-back-to-back.  When I finished AFFC I simply went to the store the next day and bought ADWD.  No waiting and very convienent.  With that being said... had I waited for five years after finishing ASOS for AFFC and then waiting another five years after finishing AFFC for ADWD I would not be very happy right now.  The story really has not progressed much in 10 years.  I mean, yes it has, but not at the pace that the first three books did.  Again, I have absolutely loved all five books, including AFFC and ADWD, but I did not have to wait for them.  I feel for all of you who have been with this since the beginning.

And now I get to play the waiting game...

[TheWildWolf]

Good book. Now I am really looking forward to the next one !

I hated to see Kevan die though. Besides Tyrion, he was my favorite Lannister

[OighearAgusTine]

Ambeon, on 16 July 2011 - 09:03 AM, said:

My guess is that he wanted to keep the peace back then (as he said when talking to Ilyrio) because he needed the seven kingdoms to break out in war when the Targaryens were ready to invade. Now however, when Aegon has landed and they have started their campaign ..

Well remember when Ned asks him "who do you serve" and he replies "I serve the realm"... I guess that's physically been demonstrated - I loved this epilogue, and fair play to Varys, he's gone way up in my estimations!

[ebevan91]

Just read the epilogue today before class. I almost didn't go to class. I was in the library on campus, and when I read the end of the Epilogue, I finished by whispering "holy ****", not sure if people heard me in the library but WOW that was crazy!

I'm guessing the "little birds" are the kids?

[Viserys_The Transformed]

yupp... they are kids trained by Varys and sent by Illyrio.

[RossM5890]

I hate Pycelle so I was glad to see him go.  Didn't mind Kevan, but like Varys said, good people can belong to bad causes.  Kevan was repairing the Lannister/Tyrell relationship and Varys couldn't let that happen.  I'm glad he did it.

[rjpraider]

Just another thing to add to who Varys serves. When King Robert put a hit on Daenery's and her unborn babe Varys went along with it. If it wasnt for Ser Jorah there would be no Dany.... He would only then have Aegon to rely on. Kind of makes me wonder what exactly he wants (not fully sold on a Targaryan ruler yet).

[Low Valyrian]

Winterfell is Burning, on 05 October 2011 - 09:28 PM, said:

Maybe Varys was just sick of the old man?  Who wouldn't after having to see him virtually every day for 20 years?

lol- kinda sad to see Kevan go...that pretty much takes the Lannisters out of the political picture. Jaime is no politician, is barely a fighter; Cersei is done for, ruined in the eyes of the people, the state, the church. Kevan was the only lion left who had power and a cool head...its like they've removed the Ewings from 'Dallas'!  The family I loved to hate is now on the brink of political ruin. Kevan and Pycelle dead will most likely mean two more Tyrells/Tarly's for the small council...think the Tyrells will be recast as the new Ewings, ha. Pycelle was nightsoil, if anything I wished he had a longer death that I could have read about. I'm pretty sure Varys is a full eunich, everytime he's in a chapter detail is given to his powdered hands, soft plump cheeks (this to me is the give away- the lack of facial hair which is brought on by testosterone) even is he wasnt not sure what that has tp do with his agenda in all of this

[JLE]

I don't believe Varys serves "the realm". That's the kind of pious political claptrap that you put on whenever trying to justify your position to someone who might be at all "honourable". Serving the realm best would have been getting rid of Cersei, exposing her kids as bastards, and having Stannis and Renly reconcile while finding roles in the kingdom for both (Stannis as nominal ruler, Eddard as a rather wiser and possibly more merciful Hand and dispenser of justice, Renly as chief diplomat to smooth over any wrangles) so that they could all cooperate and take their time to decide which dynasty should succeed the Baratheons, given that Stannis will have no more sons, nor any sons-in-law (nobody will marry his daughter), and Renly doesn't really much care for women. That would have left thousands of people alive who are now dead, and a great deal more law and justice over all the Kingdom. Plus a ton more armies to send north when the Watch called for aid.

Whatever Varys serves, it isn't "the good of the realm". I think what he actually wants is a puppet king that he can rule through, without even needing the title of Hand.

[par]

Varys remind me a bit the first communists( especially Lenin), who claimed that for the sake of mankind a part of this mankind has to be annihilated,(10%, according to Zinoviev, another lunatic), and the other parts will have to bear huge suffering( civil wars, famine, etc) to accomplish this marvelous goal.

That's the same for Varys.  For the good of the realm  the realm has to be thrown into chaos, further wars, more bloodshed.
It's a logic I cannot understand, but it does not necessarily means that he didn't genuinely wanted the good of the realm( in his own way).

As for Kevan, who seams to enjoy of the sympathy of much of our readers...
While we tend to despise Army Lorch, the mountain, the brave companions, etc, let's not forget that it was Kevan who carried out the order( given by his older brother) to burn the riverland and slaughter its smallfolks. The man is a mass murderer, and deserves no sympathy. Still, his death may worsen the situation even more, so yes, he deserved to die, but its not sure that the realm deserved his death...

Edited by par, 26 March 2013 - 01:35 PM.

[finger]

I've just finished the book, and I must say I feel somewhat disappointed. I've heard that the series was initially meant to be a trilogy and then was extended to seven books, Maybe that's the reason why the action seems to flow a bit staggishly. Instead, the different plots are taking over.

But we should know something more for certain, in order to can make more founded guesses. At the end of the book, the swords are being wielded at WF, Slaver Coast, the Mander, the Arbor, the Wall,... too many uncertainties.
It'd be too circumstantial if all the fighting happened at the same time. Besides, we don't know a thing about Sam, LF/Sansa,... great plot, but too many loose ends.

Of course Varis is most shrewd. He wants to eliminate Kevan because this one can sustain Tommen and he kills him with a crossbow at Pycelle place. Everything pointing to Tyrion, which musts get Cersei's nerves. When, most surely, her champions wins the trial she'll come back with a revenge and stiff scared. Wait and see her deeds; I guess you ain't seen nothing yet

[Raeny Dae]

I finished ADWD last night, having read all the books from the start. WOW what an ending, wasn't expecting that one! Now I can't wait for the next book, to tie up a lot of the loose ends... Tyrion, Daenerys, Arya etc. I'm dying to know what is in store for them.

My theory is that Varys killed Kevan with a crossbow to make it seem that Tyrion is still around and to put the blame on him when and if he returns.