72 replies to this topic

[lyvyathan]

Warlock Vetolgar, on 27 October 2011 - 08:11 PM, said:

Good points, but allow me to build on mine. I believe Tywin was thinking of what his sister once told him (as she tells Jaime in AFFC), namely that Tyrion is more like Tywin than he cares to admit. Kevan is a good man, but he's a follower, not a leader; a builder, not an architect. Unless he has someone to tell him what to do, he's pretty much clueless and unsure of what he should do. By the time you're done with ADWD you'll see what I mean. Cersei is too hot headed, impetuous, and immature to serve as a suitable leader, and Tywin knows this. You're right, Tywin was no fool. He was also without a choice. For the time being, while he still had a war to fight, he would have to delegate to Tyrion. When the war was over though, things changed. ASOS pretty much makes this clear from the get-go. And in my view, in Shae's case...well, there's a difference between not being cynical and being delusional.

Well mayhaps Tywin was thinking of what his sister said - but we don't know that. We do know that he disliked his sister for saying so. From memory, iirc he disagreed with her? That was a good passage btw.

Tywin did have a choice - he still could have chosen Kevan. He may have been Tywin's shadow but he was still a much competent leader than Cersei. I'm only halfway through reading ADWD - but from what I read so far -he did come up with good ideas of his own - and would have made a competent Hand if he was given the chance. The ideas that he gave to Cersei in AFOC was very sound. All Tywin had to do was give him the authority (to overrule Cersei). The fact that Jamie etc.. thought Kevan to make a good choice as the new Hand, after Tywin's death, shows that he was a competent leader.

But the fact remains that Tywin chose his dwarf son for the role instead of others Kevan or any of his other unknown commanders - he would not have given it to him if he did not believe Tyrion was up to the job. If Tyrion totally screwed it up- like the dim-witted freak that many suspected him to be - Tywin would have faced an unmitigated disaster.

Trust is the key word here - Tywin in effect trusted Tyrion for the job and acknowledged his intelligence and son for it - that was a huge honor,  a major milestone. The book however makes Tyrion despise his father's offer - seeing it in a cynical light - well, to me that seemed an anti-climatic reaction.


IMHO Dinklage's reaction in that scene was priceless.

Thanks for your post. We seem to see eye to eye on this.

Edited by Lyvyathan, 27 October 2011 - 10:21 PM.

[Warlock Vetolgar]

Funny, I always thought Tywin disliked his sister because he knew her to be right about him and Tyrion. But either yours or my of view is valid. We can certainly agree on Tywin acknowledging his son's cunning ways and putting his pride aside for a while. I suppose you can trust someone to do a good job and still not love him. I just watched the scene in question, by the way, and yes, the way Dinklage plays it is gold. I also noticed that Kevan's "suggestion" is to sue for peace. Not the man I would choose as Hand under those circusmtances . Can't remember if he says the same thing in the book, though. Anyway, it's always fun to see how far you can get with an argument. Good sparring, my friend

[mediocre cheese]

Tower of Joy. I wish they filmed that, the dialogue is just so awesome. Donal Noye's speech to Jon, Robb and Joffrey sparing (which establishes Joffrey as a shithead and Sandor as hard man very quickly), some mention of rhaegar, as well as the fate of his children (aemon briefly mentions it in the show, but it isn't explicitly laid out, as to what happened, probably because it would make Robert less likeable, and they wanted to portray him as a good guy) the hand's tourney, jaime killing the karstarks.

I really wish they hadn't made Ned such a great sword fighter as well, in the books no way does he go head to head with Jaime and live. Jaime's supposed to be the greatest knight in the land in GoT the book he is a semifinalist jouster and he kills three of robb's personal guard in battle. In the show he duels Ned (who in the books is not a great fighter) to a draw and stabbs jory with a hidden knife.

Edited by AverageCheese, 29 October 2011 - 07:07 PM.

[Princess of the Night]

I think it would be nice if they did the Dany's and Drogo's wedding night the same way that it was written in the book.

[DarkMatter]

Yeah, I wish the Tower Of Joy scene made it into the TV series. But in fairness, the TV series does stay veryfaithful to the books, especially in comparison to other movies/TV series.

[LilyFlower]

Any of Bran's dream sequences. It almost seemed to me that the series tried to skirt around the magical elements up until Dany's dragons arrive.

[Marjie Eilie Myatt]

I could have done without the flaying of the dead deer.  Also, some of the nudity and other sexuality is gratuitous, which I realize is a paradoxical thing to say, considering it's so intrinsic to the books.

[Marjie Eilie Myatt]

I know I answered this question in reverse, making it something I didn't need in the TV version.

[irishtemper]

Grew-wind howling and Catelyn thinking "so this is what battle sounds like."

I read that part and got a chill imagining what it would have been like for the opposing forces that were about to be attacked when you hear that blood-curdling howl and see a great beast charging towards you.

[The Black Betha]

Elenya Westerling, on 21 August 2011 - 12:24 PM, said:

Sandor telling Sansa about his burns.

I think it tells a lot about Sansa and Sandor's relationship from here forward

[Lord Barristan]

The other thing I just thought of is when the wildlings attack Bran in the woods and Grey Wind and Summer tear them apart...

Other than Summer killing that one assassin, the wovles really had no role to play in the book especially in that one scene where they got to be bad ass... They don't attack Tyrion either when he returns to Winterfell

So yea basically, the need to work on the CGI's with the wolves for next season

Edited by Francesco Totti, 12 December 2011 - 06:13 PM.

[Ser Leo Targaryen]

Warlock Vetolgar, on 27 October 2011 - 08:11 PM, said:

BTW, I do believe HBO's Shae is a much more interesting character and I wouldn't blame either HBO Tyrion or book Tyrion for falling in love with her. Makes me wonder how their romance is gonna play out in the show. I do believe some characters are more human in the show than in the book, but that's a different story.

I agree on that! She seems more clever and attractive. in the book it appears to me she's just a pretty whore, not someone that would call the attention for her wits as well... I also thought it was smarter of the show to have Tyrion telling about his wedding to Shae, and not to Bronn... It's not something you open up to anyone...
Thus, at first I thought it was interesting that the show didn't show Cat's and Tyrion's journey to the Eyre. Because Tyrion was a good fighter. Clumsy, but he survived... while in the show, he's not. He's a smart guy, that couldn't fight at all and doesn't even make it to his first battle.
But after reading CoK (i saw the series before starting the books) I thought that made some sense that he had some experience fighting, to justify all of the war techniques he applies on the second book...

[SirReberalPalsey]

techincly its in the second book but chronologicly i would have shown sansa snitching to cersei about ned sending them home. i feel that would have laid a better groundwork for the relationship between them going forward. it establishes motivation for sansa(she feels its her fault) and the manipulative nature of the queen.

[Cat of the Commons]

Elenya Westerling, on 21 August 2011 - 12:24 PM, said:

Sandor telling Sansa about his burns.

I agree, Littlefinger's creepy fetish for Sansa shouldn't overshadow Sandor's creepy fetish for Sansa.  :-) hahahaha

[Cat of the Commons]

I missed Pod in the first season of the show as well, no doubt he will be in season 2.

[Xtopher]

Cat of the Commons, on 10 January 2012 - 01:55 AM, said:

I agree, Littlefinger's creepy fetish for Sansa shouldn't overshadow Sandor's creepy fetish for Sansa.  :-) hahahaha

I think i have a creepy fetish for Sansa...

Edited by Xtopher, 11 January 2012 - 03:49 PM.

[Chelly]

Tower of Joy seems sort of relevant to me but apparently there will be no flashbacks from the last I heard.   Anyway it was great in the book and I would have liked to have seen it.

Yes, Sandor's creepy fetish for Sansa should most definetly overshadow Littlefinger's.

I would have also liked more of Bran's dreams or at least more than just a crow cawing at him. His dreams are so pivotal and it was the crow who urged him to wake up.

Also, I agree about the wolves. After reading about Shaggydog's wildness in the books, it would have been cool to see him go crazy on Tyrion.

[Gingerly Grumkin]

Im either blind or sorley disappointed in you guys. Tyrions fight!! He made a fucking knight yield! And we saw Shagga sitting next to the tree, looking like Boromir, but then not dead! Seriously i saw HBO before reading the books, and when Tyrion did not get knocked the fuck out in the first 5 secs of the battle i was flabbergasted to say the least

[Xtopher]

Yep, that should be the most inaccurate moment in the show and was very disappointed as how they decided to deal with it when they knew they wouldnt be able to replicate the fight because of budget. Still, Tyrion shouldnt have been showed as weak or battle-crippled cause he isnt at all.

[Phat Walda]

I know this is kinda weird, but I loved the detail in the book that after emerging from the fire, Daenerys' hair is all burnt off. I specifically made a note of it to myself to check it against the show, and was unsurprised when the series didn't do that. Cuz god forbid that any female character not be gorgeous for a couple episodes.

Same idea for the whore-on-whore scene with Littlefinger: I get that there are a lot of whores in the books, but do they HAVE to have stark naked women everywhere? I mean, jeez, you missed half what Littlefinger even said because of these chicks moaning and gasping and screeching, it was absurd.