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[ADWD Spoilers] Speculation About the Winds of Winter


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#1 Vikingkingq

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 01:29 PM

Here's what I think is going to happen in the next book:

Things I feel pretty sure about:
- While some people were frustrated by the Dany storyline, I think it's actually put everything together. There's going to be a massive battle at Meereen that will involve Victarion attacking from the sea (possibly using the horn to get Viseryion and Rhaegon to fight for him), Barristan sallying forth from the city, Tyrion/Second Sons/Tattered Prince and some of the other mercenaries turning on the Yunkai, and Dany arriving at the head of a Dothraki khalassar. At the end of the day, Dany will have a massive army, a massive fleet to carry it, dragons she can control, and will arrive in Westeros in the second book, I'm guessing at Dragonstone.
- Jon is part of Azor Ahai and PWTWP, but the two prophecies got mixed up. The star, the rebirth, and the smoke and salt are all there. But it will be Dany who warms up the eggs on Dragonstone with the breath of her three dragons.
- Cersei is going to unleash Gregorstein and go nuts on her enemies in King's Landing. Dany will arrive at Dragonstone right when King's Landing and will take the Iron Throne from Cersei.

Things I think will happen:
- Arya will finish up her training as one of the Faceless and be dispatched to kill Cersei. (Keep in mind, "the valonqar" doesn't necessarily mean Cersei's valonqar) However, she will arrive after Cersei has been deposed making it something of an empty kill. She will meet up with Nymeria and the warging ability will unscrew with her mind.
- Stannis isn't dead; Ramsey was bluffing - I think they're stalemated. However, before Stannis or Ramsey can triumph, Harry the Heir will show up with the army of the Vale and Sansa in tow. A massive three-way battle will take place at Winterfell, but I think it will be cut short by the arrival of Dany.

Things I think may happen:
- Zombiecat will kill Walder Frey, but will give up her breath of life to save one of her children or maybe Brienne (who would make a great replacement for Beric Dondarrion) shortly thereafter.
- I think Stannis takes the black and becomes the 1000th Lord Commander after whoever succeeds Snow dies.

So what are YOUR crazy predictions? Taking all bets!

#2 Werthead

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 05:00 PM

- Stannis isn't dead; Ramsey was bluffing - I think they're stalemated. However, before Stannis or Ramsey can triumph, Harry the Heir will show up with the army of the Vale and Sansa in tow. A massive three-way battle will take place at Winterfell, but I think it will be cut short by the arrival of Dany.


This is a nice idea, but I think the timeline doesn't allow for it. First off, Sweetrobin needs to die, Harry needs to become Lord, Sansa needs to declare herself, the Vale needs to gather its armies and march (a distance of many hundreds of miles) and so on. A lot of this would need to have happened in AFFC already for it to become an issue in TWoW. The food and weather situation means that the stalemate cannot endure for months through TWoW until the Vale gets in gear either.

Arya being sent on a mission seems likely, but I wonder if the target will be Cersei. I think Aegon VI or Daenerys will also be prime targets, if the Faceless Men really are as anti-Valyrian as they make out. The Citadel hiring a Faceless Man to kill Dany and dispose of her dragons also seems possible.

As for how Dany gets home, I think the ships are part of it but if Dany wins the allegiance of Khal Jhaqo, maybe the rest can just travel over the Dothraki sea? Sounds safer than risking the demon road and I doubt even Victarion's 60-odd ships can transport Dany's entire army back to Westeros. I also wonder if there will be a dragon-on-dragon rumble with Victarion's two horn-controlled dragons versus Drogon. Dany getting home with just one dragon would be interesting.

#3 Eugene V. Debspalm

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 05:13 PM

As for how Dany gets home, I think the ships are part of it but if Dany wins the allegiance of Khal Jhaqo, maybe the rest can just travel over the Dothraki sea? Sounds safer than risking the demon road and I doubt even Victarion's 60-odd ships can transport Dany's entire army back to Westeros. I also wonder if there will be a dragon-on-dragon rumble with Victarion's two horn-controlled dragons versus Drogon. Dany getting home with just one dragon would be interesting.


Whats the point of building up Valyria and the Demon road so much if no one actually has to go there at any point?

#4 WaitingforWylla

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 05:20 PM

- Zombiecat will kill Walder Frey, but will give up her breath of life to save one of her children or maybe Brienne (who would make a great replacement for Beric Dondarrion) shortly thereafter.


Brienne as the second coming of Beric Dondarrion is an AWESOME idea!

I think that before that can happen, someone has to save Jaime, however. My guess is that Brienne is going to have to double-cross Cat somehow...in order to save Jaime or do something to prove his value to Cat's cause.

#5 Ser Pistus

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 05:20 PM

Things I feel pretty sure about:
- While some people were frustrated by the Dany storyline, I think it's actually put everything together. There's going to be a massive battle at Meereen that will involve Victarion attacking from the sea (possibly using the horn to get Viseryion and Rhaegon to fight for him), Barristan sallying forth from the city, Tyrion/Second Sons/Tattered Prince and some of the other mercenaries turning on the Yunkai, and Dany arriving at the head of a Dothraki khalassar. At the end of the day, Dany will have a massive army, a massive fleet to carry it, dragons she can control, and will arrive in Westeros in the second book, I'm guessing at Dragonstone.

This reminds me:
Khal Drogo will land his khalasar in Westeros, and there will be a massive battle as King Robert rides against them.
/tongue.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' />

#6 trio

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 05:24 PM

Oh God, not the demons road! That journey would take about 500 pages!
We'll NEVER get to Westeros!

#7 Wouter

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 05:25 PM


- I think Stannis takes the black and becomes the 1000th Lord Commander after whoever succeeds Snow dies.

Now, that's a bold prediction that I rather like. Jon and Stannis would essentially switch places...

Stannis would be a good commander for the Watch, and I could see him doing it if he genuinely realises what Jon Snow is (once he is resurrected and maybe setting Longclaw on fire with his blood, a la Dondarrion post-kiss-of-fire) and realises the implication of him being a fake AA.

OTOH, Dany was noted as the "slayer of lies" re:Stannis and she is the more likely AA over Jon IMO (though Jon can take the PtwP position).

#8 RH1

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 05:27 PM

Rickon and Davos and the return of the STARKS. The Northmen seem fanatical about their Stark lords and if Rickon comes back with Shaggydog following at his heels half the North will "bend the knee" on the spot.

#9 Werthead

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 05:30 PM

Oh yeah, Stannis being LC of the Night's Watch is a brilliant move. If Dany turns up, turns out to be part of the prophecy and if Jon makes a comeback as the PWWP or whatever I can just see Stannis going, "Yeah, I was wrong, you guys deal with this shit and I'll go sit on the Wall forever." I actually think Stannis' righteousness is actually setting him up for the point at which he does just admit he's wrong and stands aside. Assuming Ramsay hasn't kill him off off-page, of course.

Whats the point of building up Valyria and the Demon road so much if no one actually has to go there at any point?


I think GRRM said that we may see the edges of Valyria (as we did in ADWD) but beyond that I don't see how it's possbile to do the demon road trek without taking at least half a book to do it, and he can't afford to take that time if he wants it done in 7 books. We'd need a chapter or two on the road, one or two in Mantarys as we find out why it's a city of monsters and so on, and then a few more as they march from Mantarys to Volantis. I don't see it happening. So either they go by ship or they skip over the Dothraki sea.

Or GRRM pulls a Rothfuss and has Dany leaving Meereen in one chapter, arriving in Volantis a bit later going, "Hey, Mantarys was totally crazy wasn't it? Let's never speak of it again." /tongue.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' />

#10 Faint

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 05:54 PM

Stannis and she is the more likely AA over Jon IMO (though Jon can take the PtwP position).


I honestly have the opposite impression. Melisandre keeps asking the fire to see Azor Ahai and the fire keeps showing her Jon Snow. It's not as if the fire can be confused about the prophecy. If it really was Daenerys, wouldn't she be the one to appear?

#11 Social Justice Bass

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 06:02 PM

We know that Mance never found the Horn of Joramun from ADWD. At some point, I strongly believe that someone is going to blow it in Winds of Winter, and bring the entire Wall down* in the middle of Winter. I originally thought that was going to happen at the end of ADWD, but it probably won't happen until the end of Winds of Winter.

* If it doesn't come down, we never get the House of the Undying vision where Dany rides a black dragon and melts a ton of Others at the Trident.

#12 Jeejee

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 06:06 PM

- Arya will finish up her training as one of the Faceless and be dispatched to kill Cersei. (Keep in mind, "the valonqar" doesn't necessarily mean Cersei's valonqar) However, she will arrive after Cersei has been deposed making it something of an empty kill. She will meet up with Nymeria and the warging ability will unscrew with her mind.


There's no way Arya can finish training in a year; it takes years just to learn how to change your face. She could go under the supervision of another FM, since they don't seem to mind getting the acolytes started on killing early. It would be interesting if Jaqen learned all he needed from the Citadel and returned to Braavos, leaving shortly thereafter with Arya in tow for some hands on training.

Or she could take one of the outs that the KoM keeps offering her and choose to go back to Westeros on her own.

#13 Eugene V. Debspalm

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 06:07 PM

I think GRRM said that we may see the edges of Valyria (as we did in ADWD) but beyond that I don't see how it's possbile to do the demon road trek without taking at least half a book to do it, and he can't afford to take that time if he wants it done in 7 books. We'd need a chapter or two on the road, one or two in Mantarys as we find out why it's a city of monsters and so on, and then a few more as they march from Mantarys to Volantis. I don't see it happening. So either they go by ship or they skip over the Dothraki sea.



Yeah...but...with the destruction of Hardhome sounding disturbingly like that of Valyria, I wonder if whateverr happened there wasn't just random vulcanism or magic gone awry or whatever, but something more deliberate thats more relevant than just random background. We don't need to have chapters and chapters of the whole army marching through Valyria, but someone needs to go there at some point, figure out what the deal is. Maybe a flashback from Euron (or whatever lost Lannister sailed off there, at least.. That still needs to be solved.) at least.



#14 Faint

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 06:11 PM

Anybody have any ideas on how Arya will be reincorporated into the story given the time disparities of her storyline compared to everyone else?

#15 Logen Ninefingers

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 06:14 PM

Dany leaves Essos. I desperately hope. I've had silly name overload.

#16 Slick Mongoose

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 06:16 PM

Or she could take one of the outs that the KoM keeps offering her and choose to go back to Westeros on her own.


Would she be allowed at this point? A half trained faceless man wandering about?

#17 Vikingkingq

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 06:18 PM

This is a nice idea, but I think the timeline doesn't allow for it. First off, Sweetrobin needs to die, Harry needs to become Lord, Sansa needs to declare herself, the Vale needs to gather its armies and march (a distance of many hundreds of miles) and so on. A lot of this would need to have happened in AFFC already for it to become an issue in TWoW. The food and weather situation means that the stalemate cannot endure for months through TWoW until the Vale gets in gear either.

Arya being sent on a mission seems likely, but I wonder if the target will be Cersei. I think Aegon VI or Daenerys will also be prime targets, if the Faceless Men really are as anti-Valyrian as they make out. The Citadel hiring a Faceless Man to kill Dany and dispose of her dragons also seems possible.

As for how Dany gets home, I think the ships are part of it but if Dany wins the allegiance of Khal Jhaqo, maybe the rest can just travel over the Dothraki sea? Sounds safer than risking the demon road and I doubt even Victarion's 60-odd ships can transport Dany's entire army back to Westeros. I also wonder if there will be a dragon-on-dragon rumble with Victarion's two horn-controlled dragons versus Drogon. Dany getting home with just one dragon would be interesting.


1. Given that we haven't heard anything from the Vale, Robert could already be dead and the Vale on the march. And if the Vale attacks by ship, they could do it in a couple of weeks.
2. I think Cersei is the only mission that makes sense - the Iron Bank of Braavos is already intervening against Cersei, it would be logical for them to hire out a hit job to the Faceless Men. If the Faceless Men were as anti-Valyrian as they make out, they would have tried to wipe out the Targaryans before.
3. The Dothraki Sea doesn't solve the problem of how to get them across the narrow sea. My guess is that Victarion + dragons means a good chunk of the Volantine fleet will be captured, providing enough manpower.

#18 Vikingkingq

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 06:24 PM

Stannis would be a good commander for the Watch, and I could see him doing it if he genuinely realises what Jon Snow is (once he is resurrected and maybe setting Longclaw on fire with his blood, a la Dondarrion post-kiss-of-fire) and realises the implication of him being a fake AA.


That's kind of why I think it's going to happen - if Stannis finds out that he was wrong/deceived, his sense of honor doesn't really leave him another way out.

I also can't wait for Jon Snow doing the business with the flaming sword. /goosebumps

#19 Vikingkingq

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 06:25 PM

There's no way Arya can finish training in a year; it takes years just to learn how to change your face. She could go under the supervision of another FM, since they don't seem to mind getting the acolytes started on killing early. It would be interesting if Jaqen learned all he needed from the Citadel and returned to Braavos, leaving shortly thereafter with Arya in tow for some hands on training.

Or she could take one of the outs that the KoM keeps offering her and choose to go back to Westeros on her own.


I doubt B will happen. She might be sent out as an apprentice with the person tasked to kill Cersei.

#20 Alexia

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 06:28 PM

I doubt B will happen. She might be sent out as an apprentice with the person tasked to kill Cersei.

Or with a person tasked to kill Stannis/Melisandre. This seems more likely to me as she is supposed to be No One and have no grudges against those she kills, and it would reincorporate her into the storyline of the North.