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The Wedding At The Twins


Lucreel

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With this? You got nothing.

You're missing out if you stop reading. The book only gets better from there.

And yeah, there was a ton of build up to it so it's just not out of nowhere; you just failed to notice it.

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The Starks and the Tullys view the Freys with seething contempt. Nonetheless, Frey lends his considerable power to Robb's cause early on when Robb is a big underdog. All Frey gets in exchange are promises. Robb squanders the victory Frey gave him by declaring himself a king, then renegs on his promise to wed Frey's daughter and starts piling on the insults. Then after expecting Frey to accept an empty apology, Stark's plan is to head north with Frey's men and abandon the Twins to his enemies.

Hmm.

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It's funny, before I got to this part in the books all my friends who had read them asked me "have you gotten to the red wedding yet?! did you read the red wedding yet?!" Which I hadn't, so I assumed it had to do with Joffrey's wedding to Margery. I assumed one of them would be killed or somebody would die at that wedding.

I had NO idea it was the tully-frey wedding that was 'red'. That totally blindsided me.

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I'm really surprised that so many people are angered by Catelyn dying. Nobody in this thread is even mentioning that she murdered an innocent mentally handicapped person by slitting his throat. Yes, her son just died -- but kill that piece of shit Lord Walder Frey instead of an innocent bystander. Not to mention Catelyn freed Jaime Lannister, majorly fucking her son and her family over. Most of what she did was either a) annoying or B) downright idiotic.

But Robb dying? That's just mean. His storyline seemed to have so much potential going forward. Since he wasn't a POV character he was slightly mysterious and as the heir to Winterfell he was the person all us pro-Stark's were hanging our hopes on. It's more than just Robb's character dying -- it's the fact that a complete storyline was ripped out from the feet of the reader and thrown away.

Oh well, on to A Feast for Crows. :(

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Spoiler warning: thread deals with content from the chapter where there is a wedding at The Twins.

Damn, GRRM has some BRASS BALLS. He goes where few authors dare to tread. He is willing to kill off every major character, who would be 'protected' in the stories of 99%. He's essentially killed off the 'main characters' from the first three books (well, most of em).

I gotta say, during that whole chapter, I had a sense of dread. Actually, the sense of dread started when Robb Stark decided he could try to win back Walder Frey. Sometimes, you just gotta write off a loss. I just knew that it was bad, bad idea to ever go back to The Twins again. I knew Walder was going to betray him and attack him at the wedding. Just knew it was a trap.

*sigh*

Well, it makes for some damn fine, suspenseful reading, anyhow. I can't imagine what's next for Arya. I guess the only thing left for her now is to take up Jaqen's offer and become a faceless man. *grin* I'll tell you, even though I rather strongly suspected that there would be treachery at The Twins, I really never expected the author to go that far. It's heartbreaking, but it also takes some of the tired old formula out of fantasy literature - too much fantasy literature is far too predictable, because you *know* the protagonists are never in any real danger; GRRM just smashes those expectations on the floor, lol.

EDIT: Just an additional thought - I've started reading the next chapter, and it occurs to me that there's not a lot of people left for Sandor Clegane to ransom Arya to. I think the only people he could get any money out of now for Arya would be, potentially, the Starks' enemies, or *maybe* whatever loyal lords are left to the Starks (it's not clear if all the Umbers were killed or not - Smalljon probably has; thankfully some of Rob's lords aren't present at the wedding feast - the two he sent as Envoys to the Crannogmen (Lady Mormont and I forget the other). The Blackfish at Riverrun wouldn't recognize Arya, but perhaps some other lords might.

It makes sense - its like the Empire Strikes Back moment of the book series. Every now then its good to have a OMGWTFBBQ moment. Otherwise it gets a bit predictable.

The only thing I disliked about it - was the fact that Robb married Jeyne and not the Frey - which made him look like a total nincompoop.

Marriage oaths were taken very seriously back then. Breaking one - esp to an important ally - was a very serious "hanging" offense. I don't know whether they hanged oathbreakers but still... And going back to your ex-would be father-in-law's house, a man whose known to be a shady bugger - with your entire leadership, was mindbogglingly stupid. Yeah, they were guests in his house, he shouldn't have killed them, but its Walder "Mayhaps" Frey, a real weasel. They knew that about the trust issues.

Having said that - the events of RW could still have occured. Robb doesn't marry Jeyne despite sleeping with her - mayhaps you can have a moment when Catelyn persuades him to carry through with the marriage - after all she was in a similar predicament in her 1st year of marriage with Ned.

Then Robb goes to marry the Frey, but Uncle Walder betrays him and the rest anyway because Tywin offers him a much sweeter deal, after all the Frey was a weasel. That would make more sense - and a greater OMGWTFRW moment.

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I'm really surprised that so many people are angered by Catelyn dying. Nobody in this thread is even mentioning that she murdered an innocent mentally handicapped person by slitting his throat. Yes, her son just died -- but kill that piece of shit Lord Walder Frey instead of an innocent bystander. Not to mention Catelyn freed Jaime Lannister, majorly fucking her son and her family over. Most of what she did was either a) annoying or B) downright idiotic.

But Robb dying? That's just mean. His storyline seemed to have so much potential going forward. Since he wasn't a POV character he was slightly mysterious and as the heir to Winterfell he was the person all us pro-Stark's were hanging our hopes on. It's more than just Robb's character dying -- it's the fact that a complete storyline was ripped out from the feet of the reader and thrown away.

Oh well, on to A Feast for Crows. :(

Haha, check out the "Defending Catelyn, again" Thread - you'll find that the Cat lovers will find any excuse to defend her behavior.

Like this one:

David Selig

http://asoiaf.wester...in/page__st__20

"What's so wrong with Cat ignoring someone who was not her child? I honestly don't get this."

***

LOL. Sometimes I wonder whether the Cat lovers are reading from the same book.

But I digress. Anyway I love Cat. Who doesn't like a bit of Pussy every now and then?

As for Robb dying? Well I understand your rage. I wanted to see Robb lead the Northern Army and go kick Tywin Lannister so hard that he craps gold nuggets.

But in GRRM scheme of things- his grand plot - Robb had his time in the sun, much like Ned his father. He made his mark, defeated the enemy armies on the field - then gets royally buggered in a Wedding? I mean, isn't that the story of most men's lives? :D

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THANK YOU. This is not brave at ALL. This is Martin setting down an Arya chapter, then a Cat chapter, then an Arya chapter, then a Cat chapter, then just when you think the 2 are about to meet he provides this wonderful illustration for us all to consider: http://tnation.t-nat...16c3f-fats2.jpg there you go, hopefully that answers all your questions, readers! no, that's STUPID, instead of arya seeing her mother dead or alive, we get "yeah i know she's dead i saw it in a dream," and that's it. really?

Wrong and wrong. Sansa didn't get to kill Joffrey? I'm most surprised Martin didn't let Joff drink from the fountain of youth, live forever, get everything he wants in life and then rape everything that can walk. Antagonists will NOT get what's coming to them, they will live long fulfilling lives killing the major characters you love, and then the 7th book ends on a cliffhanger. Absolute rubbish.

Yeah, you know why you feel cheated? Because Ned's death got lots of buildup. He got a scene. He got a freaking parade. And then you got closure with all the Kingdomcraft that spills over after. With this? You got nothing. Robb and Cat murdered, the latter by a no-name, and then nothing comes of it. Really sick of hearing people say this scene was genius. It wasn't.

Have you finished the book? Have you read FFC and DWD? If not, then surely I can understand why you feel that antagonists don't get what's coming to them, but that's simply not true. There are plenty of examples of comeuppance in the series, even in this book after the red wedding. I'm not going to make a list here because it's not fair for those who haven't finished, but there is no reason to discourage anyone from reading on. The universe isn't black and white and often justice is rarely served by those we would like to see executing it, but it does happen every now and then, even if the pay-off is delayed.

I certainly understand your frustration, though, especially with Cat and Arya. I had been waiting three damn books for them to be reunited and it really took the wind out of my sails to have Arya be so close yet never see her mother. BUT with that being said, If you haven't finished the book, all I can really say is be patient. GRRM really does seem to get his jollies with delaying reader gratification.

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Have you finished the book? Have you read FFC and DWD? If not, then surely I can understand why you feel that antagonists don't get what's coming to them, but that's simply not true. There are plenty of examples of comeuppance in the series, even in this book after the red wedding. I'm not going to make a list here because it's not fair for those who haven't finished, but there is no reason to discourage anyone from reading on. The universe isn't black and white and often justice is rarely served by those we would like to see executing it, but it does happen every now and then, even if the pay-off is delayed.

I won't be happy until Roose Bolton and Walder Frey have got what's coming to them, and last I checked they're both still live and kicking.

I never really got over the Red Wedding tbh. I still enjoy the books, don't get me wrong, but I no longer know who to support in the game of thrones now that Robb is dead.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I love this chapter so much, every book should have one like it.

Nothing beats having do-gooder goody-goody good guys get betrayed and decapitated by their own bannerman!

For all those who say it's like a "rite of passage," like Eddard'd decapitation (as if either his death or Robb's is sad!), then I disgaree. More like it's a SPECIAL TREAT!!

Spoilers for end of book:

Imagine my unpleasant surprise, then, when Catelyn turned out to be alive!

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