158 replies to this topic

[mor2]

Full Map preview. Its rather and I am tired uploading huge files so I down scale it to 1/4 of its original size, some terrain on the eastern parts are still missing and the disclaimer/list of contributors(needs translation, the map is based on the russian WIKI version).

EDIT:
In the Northern part few mistakes have been fixed and few locations have been added since I posted this.

Edited by mor2, 06 May 2012 - 05:58 AM.

[kkae]

Looks great.
Valyria is currently named Volantis though.

[mor2]

Thanks for pointing it out, I havent given essos proper attention as of yet but I am moving that way and all those corrections help allot. (I'll upload an updated map soon, it takes time to crop/resize and save that monsters of a file).
Btw, @Ran any chance you can share with us if "The Footprint" is something that we are going to see on the official maps?


EDIT: latest version

Edited by mor2, 06 May 2012 - 07:48 AM.

[Werthead]

Further thoughts:

In Dorne, you have 'Sarfall' rather than 'Starfall'. There's also the river that Starfall, High Hermitage and Blackmont is on, which is called the Torentine and should be named. 'Old Town' is one word ('Oldtown') as well. I'd also add the location of Ghaston Grey (which I believe is on Ran's map of Westeros, based on GRRM's info). 'Dornish Marches' is also two words. Possibly add the Planky Town as well?

I'd also add the name 'Driftmark' to the appropriate island (the big one west of Dragonstone). 'Shipbreaker Bay' is also the correct spelling.

The road from Sar Mell to Mantarys passes through Volantis rather than off to one side. I think it's also fine if you call that road the 'Demon Road', as many colloquial/nicknames seem to have become official in the setting (narrow sea being a descriptive term which seems to have evolved into a proper name). I'd also fully capitalise 'Orange Shore'. I'd also have 'Chroyane' as well as 'The Sorrows'. The ADWD map's approach ('The Sorrows (Chroyane)') seems fine.

I think we can add a city marker for 'Port of Ibben' at the top of the bay where it is marked on the HBO map as well. That seems a safe guess to make, if the HBO version of Ibben matches GRRM's map (as Ran said earlier).

I think you can also add a 'Black Cliffs' label for the stretch of coast between Tolos and Bhorash, and 'Volaena' to the river just north of Volantis. I'd add a 'Yaros' label to the island near Yunkai. The city you have labelled 'Godsgrace' on the Isle of Tears is actually 'Gogossos'.

I'd remove the Summer Isles for now. It looks like they're further north (based on the tail end of one that appears in the HBO title sequence) so including them would be fully speculative at this time. Based on the same thing, it looks we'll have to rethink the whole relationship between Sothoryos, Essos and the Jade Sea. It certainly doesn't look as certain as before that Sothoryos is the landmass south of the Jade Sea as it did a few weeks ago.

Edited by Werthead, 06 May 2012 - 02:50 PM.

[mor2]

I hava added/fixed those, in addition I added Lhazar as well as a few missing islands/regions in westeros.

As for the summer islands I'll just put a speculative lable on them.

[mor2]

I think I have added all the fixes,  here the map (big 1.4MB) any more problem and/or changes I should make?
btw, the all the flourishes are just for this map as it intended to be dissected into regional maps.

EDIT: Edit Lhazar had one move to many undone and thus mistakenly located above the river...

Edited by mor2, 11 May 2012 - 12:02 PM.

[Werthead]

Let's see:

Maybe add 'Straits of Tarth' between the mainland and the island?
Add a Velvet Hills marker to the hills around the Little Rhoyne?
Maybe add a marker for Stokeworth just north of King's Landing?
You need to sort out what's going on with the Lannisport map marker. Maybe move it immediately south of the Casterly Rock one?
'Sunhouse' I belive has been retconned to 'Sunflower Hall'.
The mountains of the Valyrian Peninsular do not extend north of Meereen. The Khyzai Pass is east of Meereen, not to the south. The Dothraki Sea extends right to the Skahazadhan, I believe.
Ibben isn't speculative, as per Ran's info earlier on. In fact, IIRC the 'speculative' zone starts furth east, at the peninsular south of Ibben. Vaes Dothrak and the western half of the Red Waste are canon on both the HBO and GRRM's map, or so I understood it.
The currently-favoured name for the southern continent seems to be 'Sothoryos' at present.
I'd definitely consider the HBO intro map, which shows Sothoryos's coastline dropping off to the south roughly where your speculative zone currently starts. How reliable that is is uncertain, but it's better than nothing.
It's a crowded area but maybe add the Inn at the Crossroads and the Inn of the Kneeling Man?
Add the term 'Red Mountains' to the appropriate range?

[mor2]

Thanks I think I got it all. Lannisport marker was a leftover from before, Khyzai Pass location is a pure speculation and while I really dont trust HBO into(its perspective is off and its possible its "photoshop" like lastime) I still changed it, hopefully this what you had in mind: http://minus.com/mIKonWwZz/1f  (The file is a little bigger this time, I only reduced it to 30% of its dimension, so that the names be more distinguishable and still easily upload/downloadable )

Edited by mor2, 12 May 2012 - 01:42 PM.

[Werthead]

Excellent. Although by 'just north of King's Landing' (for Stokeworth) I meant really close to it, like 15-30 miles or so IIRC in AFFC it's said it's really close to the city.

You also need to capitalise the first letter in 'Lhazar'. Apart from that, it's pretty good. I'd definitely consider adding the inns, as they are fairly important locations for various events in the books though.

[princeMountainGoat]

Actually I would dispute the location of Stokeworth with you there.

Bronn says to Tyrion that he is due to have dinner in Stokeworth "later tonight" when he leaves to seal his marriage which indicates that you could make the journey in one day, hence the 15-30 miles you suggest. But when Balmen Byrch and Falyse Stokeworth travel to King's Landing in AFFC they tell Cersei that they were "refused hospitality in Rosby" which seems to suggest that Stokeworth is further away than Rosby. Rosby is located on one of the official maps so we know where it is. I make it about 80 miles away so Stokeworth could be roughly the same distance away but to the north of Rosby in which case my theory is that Bronn was being a bit sarcastic or loose with the truth when he said he was going to be having dinner later that day in Stokeworth.


But with regards to the map for the wiki you should probably stick with canon only for now and avoid speculative locations until they are confirmed. Hopefully we'll get that confirmation in the Lands of Ice and Fire map set later this year but I don't expect we'll get the answers to where everything is in there.

Edited by lordMountainGoat, 14 May 2012 - 09:40 AM.

[mor2]

Its not a problem, they all in 'speculative' folder, I can turn them on/off just any other label group. Also I dont intend to place the map anywhere but the region articles, the specific location would use the light weight maps, which tend to provide a more general location for perspective purpose.

[Werthead]

Thanks to Bantam's sneak preview of the Lands of Ice and Fire, I have thrown together a very rough new world map outline.

The differences with the HBO map are fairly substantial. The Jade Sea now appears to run south of Essos, with Qarth on its north-western coast. The Straits of Qarth are no longer between two parts of Essos, or between Essos and Sothoryos, but between Essos and a large island which separates the Summer Sea from the Jade Sea. There is another strait to the south of this island, between it and Sothoryos. This makes the placement of Qarth dubious; isn't parth of Qarth's wealth based on the fact that it controls the only access point between the two seas? Still, that can be explained by the southern straits being pirate-infested or too dangerous due to currents or something.

This reorientation of the entire Jade Sea means that Essos now appears to extent eastwards as a solid landmass for a colossal distance (basically, everything that was the Jade Sea on the HBO map is now filled-in land). Based on what the LoIaF set calls the 'Dothraki Sea' map, Vaes Dothrak appears to have been moved a fair bit south (that map cuts off way south of VD's position on the HBO map). Most interesting is that there is now a massive mountain range - like Himalaya massive - which seems to run from that bay south-east of Ibben all the way to the Jade Sea just east of Qarth. Cool, I guess, but you'd have thought we'd have heard about such a massive range in the books. The Jade Sea is still more or less circular and filled with islands. There is a large jungle along part of its northern coast (isn't Yi Ti reported to be in a jungle?) and a large grey smudge near the south-east, which looks like another possible mountain range. I'm going to guess that Asshai is on what appears to be a substantial bay on the east coast of the Jade Sea. No indications of anything that could be the Shadow Lands.

The Summer Isles appear to lie south of the Narrow Sea and consist of several large islands (at least three, maybe more) oriented along a north-south axis. The bit of Sothoryos we see on the existing maps is pretty much all that there is, and the whole thing appears to be a peninsular of the what is presumably the main Sothoryon continent further south.

[Barbosch]

Werthead, on 23 May 2012 - 04:41 PM, said:

Thanks to Bantam's sneak preview of the Lands of Ice and Fire, I have thrown together a very rough new world map outline. The differences with the HBO map are fairly substantial. The Jade Sea now appears to run south of Essos, with Qarth on its north-western coast.  

Ok but what with Dothraki's speech about raiding through land of Jogos Nhai ?Asshai can also be reached overland by a circuitous route or not? With this statement Jade Sea must lie more close to north of Essos?

P.S. Sorry for my terrible english

Edited by Barbosch, 23 May 2012 - 04:52 PM.

[Red Wedding Participant]

I like that map a lot, although it looks like Essos and Sothoryos would be connected (just barely, but still). I actaully do like that map more than some of the other ones, because I prefer Essos to look meatier, and not so much like a string bean. good work man\

[Werthead]

Barbosch, on 23 May 2012 - 04:51 PM, said:

Ok but what with Dothraki's speech about raiding through land of Jogos Nhai ?Asshai can also be reached overland by a circuitous route or not? With this statement Jade Sea must lie more close to north of Essos?

We don't know where the Jogos Nhai is, so it could still be pretty close to the Dothraki Sea. The big eastern mountains should have plenty of passes through them which the Dothraki can raid, and they can probably get down to Asshai by an overland route that way.

This map was created by GRRM, by the way, but redrawn by a professional artist. GRRM has completely revamped his ideas of Eastern Essos in the last few months, so it's also possible that some of the changes may not be in line with minor details from earlier in the books.

[Barbosch]

Quote

We don't know where the Jogos Nhai is, so it could still be pretty close to the Dothraki Sea. The big eastern mountains should have plenty of passes through them which the Dothraki can raid, and they can probably get down to Asshai by an overland route that way.

I really dont remember where were these informations about eastern mountains . From SSM or books?

Quote

This map was created by GRRM, by the way, but redrawn by a professional artist. GRRM has completely revamped his ideas of Eastern Essos in the last few months, so it's also possible that some of the changes may not be in line with minor details from earlier in the books.

So GRRM created these maps for use of the Lands of Ice and Fire ?

Edited by Barbosch, 23 May 2012 - 05:13 PM.

[Werthead]

Quote

I really dont remember where were these informations about eastern mountains . From SSM or books?

Oh, the eastern mountains on the newly-released maps from today. They show a pretty substantial range forming the eastern edge of the Dothraki Sea, running from coast to coast.

Quote

So GRRM created these maps for use of the Lands of Ice and Fire ?

Yes.

[Werthead]

After looking further at the images, it appears that the maps are as follows (note: Map 1 is oriented towards us, Maps 2-6 to people sitting on the left and 7-10 to the people on the right):

1: The Dothraki Sea, mainly deduced from the legend 'The Dothraki Sea' being visible You can see the Forest of Qohor in the top-left corner. The blob near the bottom-right corner may be Qarth. Note the massive mountain range that now seems to form the eastern edge of the Dothraki Sea. This map doesn't appear to go as far north as Vaes Dothrak's location on the HBO maps, so VD's location has presumably been moved (either that or the Dothraki Sea map doesn't have Vaes Dothrak on it, which would appear to be pointless). Valyria is at the bottom-left but appears to be oddly squashed in shape, though the map is curling at that edge, so it may be an artefact of that.

2: The World Map. You can see Westeros at the top (the white bit at the top-right are the lands beyond the Wall). Sothoroys is the dark blob on the middle-left edge. Everything 'below' that is presumably the Jade Sea. The landmasses just above Sothroyos are presumably the Summer Isles. Right at the very bottom there appears to be a significant mountain range in the vicinity of what I would suspect are Asshai and the Shadow (maybe the Shadow Lands are simply called that because they are in the shadow of a large mountain range? That would be disappointingly mundane).

3: The Free Cities.
4: The Western World map, with Westeros, the Free Cities and the Summer Islands.
5: The Lands Beyond the Wall.

6: Unclear, but probably the Middle World map, featuring Slaver's Bay, the Dothraki Sea and Ibben (I'm pretty sure that's Ibben at the top of the map).

7: Unclear. The dark blob on the far right edge might be Sothoryos again, so this might be the Eastern World map, featuring the Jade Sea and Asshai. Interesting if so, as it appears to show a previously unknown chain of islands or a larger landmass to the north to Essos, east of Ibben. Could this be the mysterious 'new continent' hinted at by Ran? Hmm.

8: King's Landing.

9: This appears to be another world map, but in a different style to the others, with fainter colours. Squinting a lot, it's possible that Valyria is still a solid landmass at this point on this map, so it's possible this is a historical map showing fallen kingdoms and empires. Alternately, this could be the character journeys map.

10: Fairly obviously, Slaver's Bay Valyria looks like its proper proportions here from the book maps.

No sign of the Braavos map, unfortunately, but that should be in the package as well

[Arataniello]

Werthead, on 23 May 2012 - 04:41 PM, said:

Thanks to Bantam's sneak preview of the Lands of Ice and Fire, http://i36.photobuck...s/WorldMap.png]
Most interesting is that there is now a massive mountain range - like Himalaya massive - which seems to run from that bay south-east of Ibben all the way to the Jade Sea just east of Qarth. Cool, I guess, but you'd have thought we'd have heard about such a massive range in the books.  

Tyrion's reference to the nine or seven natural wonders of the world in one of his earlier chapters of aDwD may be a non-specific mention of this mountain range, possibly.

[mor2]

Werthead, on 24 May 2012 - 08:58 PM, said:

After looking further at the images, it appears that the maps are as follows

Repost from  the other thread, any chance it is something like this: http://s13.postimage...xuvo7/image.jpg

EDIT:

Werthead, on 24 May 2012 - 08:58 PM, said:

maybe the Shadow Lands are simply called that because they are in the shadow of a large mountain range? That would be disappointingly mundane

I had the same thought, if so, Ashi is closer that it seems...

EDIT2:
Also another look at the map http://postimage.org/image/hy2yoqc2z/

Edited by mor2, 25 May 2012 - 09:15 AM.