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Cersei


Slychd

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I was definitely disappointed in Cersei as a character. She was the character I loved to hate and I really expected her to be better at political intrigue than she turned out to be. After the book was over I was happy that it seems she will get her comeuppance, but it wasn't even fun to dislike her. I felt some pity for her when she recounted how Robert would treat her, but even that pity was tempered with revulsion.

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I think her chapters are great; it's clear from before that more intelligent people (Tyrion, for one, and Kevan) don't have much respect for her abilities, and you really find out why through her thought processes. She's generally smart enough to cover 4 out of 5 angles, but very often it's that fifth angle that comes back to bite her. Add to that the hilariously misplaced self-confidence and cornball pep-talks she gives herself and you've got a very fun character that also happens to be in the middle of everything.

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I love the bits where Cersei comments about Lady Falyse having an over-fondness for hippocras, but she always seems to have a glass in her hand herself! Totally delusional. Very interesting though.

That really sums her character up pretty well, delusion of being better than everyone else and thinking she is smart enough to rule all by herself.

I love her, though.

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I just finished reading AFfC, and I hoped to see a thread such as this one. Cersei's POV amused me, but mostly it frustrated me. She is convinced of being the most cunning person in westeros, she has such a high opinion of herself and completely disregard the possible consequences of her decisions. Her reaction to the ironmen's longship invasion was illustrating how ignorant she can be. People try to make her understand but to no avail...

She wishes she had Tywin's cunning and ability to rule but she's just pathetic in the end. Her hate for Tyrion blinded her even more.

Also, woohoo! my first post after so much lurking ^_^

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I generally liked the Cersei chapters, but I agree that the weakest part is the prophecies. It seemed like a cheap shortcut to character development - I very much would have preferred a more grounded exploration of her PTSD, paranoia, and eventual alcoholism.

That said, even with that weakness, Cersei's chapters are brilliant in the way it is the natural evolution of the unreliable narrator. In GOT, most of our encounters with Cersei came from Ned's point of view. Seven bless him, but Ned is not exactly the sharpest tool in the drawer when it comes to politics. Of course Cersei seems like a criminal mastermind; compared to Ned, she is!!!

In COK, we see her machinations mostly from Tyrion's view, and she comes across much worse; she is short-sighted, self-indulgent, and oblivious. Tyrion runs rings around her. Even Littlefinger seems to hold her in contempt (not that she notices this, of course).

In SOS, from Tyrion an Jaime's perspectives, we see much of the same, except by now it's Tywin running the show with an iron fist. And, of course, from Sansa's final POVs, we finally our first glimpse of just how powerful Littlefinger has been all along. Up until now, he's been derided as a petty striver by just about everybody, when in fact he's been arguably the biggest player in the game from the start. Despite the slings and arrows from his social superiors, Littlefinger's been controlling the action all along. Tyrion, the Queen of Thorns, Tywin - all of them are to Littlefinger what Cersei was to Tyrion.

In FFC, the direct view we get of Cersei's myriad neuroses only works because of the gradual perspective shift we saw in the previous books. It is only because we've already seen her gradual descent in previous volumes that we can now grasp her slide into madness, and what it means. Again, in my opinion, this would be much more effective without he prophecies - but I still found it compelling as it was written.

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Her son was just killed in front of her by the little brother who she hates and thinks will kill her in the future( I understand tyrion didn't kill him). The same brother killed her father, who made her kind of untouchable to a degree. Her daughter was moved away. Now her lover-brother has lost a hand, changed dramatically and shunned her etc. All of this in a short period of time. This would push many people over the edge...especially somebody who was already on the brink from day 1.

The POV just makes us realize how weak and un-cunning she really is.

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In AFFC we get our first POV's of Queen Cersei. Was anyone disappointed? I expected some master of strategy, not a borderline psychotic. Not that I don't think the story is brilliant, but all of the things she had been accused of were perpetrated by others. She didn't kill Jon Arryn, she didn't hire the assassin to kill Bran, all she did was cause Robert's death early, which I think it might have ended up to better server her had he lived.

I'm not at all disappointed. I love her character (which is to say, I despise everything about her), and it would've been a massive cop-out if it turned out that, yet again, she was this Godlike character who was behind most of the things that happen and could do no wrong.

I love the fact that, despite what she thinks, she's one of the worst players of the Game of Thrones in Westeros. I love her paranoid psychosis and general Lady Macbeth feel. I love the fact that, when you get right down to it, she's a horrible, horrible person with absolutely zero redeeming features.

She goes around saying all these things, thinking all these things, BELIEVING all these things, but when it comes down to it, she fails massively at life. It's always everyone else's fault. Any time anybody counsels her against what she wants to do, she decides they must be a traitor who's up to no good. Her council is full of incompetent yes-men (the only two who're half-way good at their job are either on the verge of losing said job (Pycelle) or up to something down in the basement that will probably doom them all (Qyburn)), and most of her court are only putting up with her because they get sex, power or both.

In a world of superwomen like Arya and Danaerys, and Littlefinger pulling the strings on basically everything that ever happens, it's refreshing to have Cersei there, to remind us that not everyone who plays the Game of Thrones is actually good at it. Ned was terrible too of course, but for different reasons. He was never going to be any good and he knew it. Cersei actually thinks she's 'winning', despite all the obvious clues. That's what makes her so good as a character.

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When we first met Cersei in A Game of Thrones she seemed a bit of an archetypal evil queen, but as her story developed in the next two books, I found it interesting that she wasn't the all-powerful political figure that she first appeared, but a pawn in her father's game, just as Joffrey and later, even more so, Tommen were her pawns. Now she's got into the position of real power that she's been lusting after - and she's got no idea what to do with it. Instead, she's spending all her energies trying to destroy her rival and let the kingdom go hang. I suspect she's never really been taught how to do politics the Lannister way, because no one ever expected her, a woman, to need to know. Her husband, her son and her father all stood between her and real power.

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Cersei was my favorite character by far in AFFC. Yes, she made a couple grievous errors. Arming the clergy & not paying the iron thrones debts to the bank in Norvos may cost her dearly. No war can be fought without strong financial backing. However, she is not totally unwise to be suspicious of those around her.Psychotic, no! Neurotic, well yeah.

Actually Neurotics think everything is their fault. Personality Disorders think everything is someone else's fault.

*backs quietly out of thread*

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I honestly expected less paranoia from her.

Just like her husband Robert, Cercei came to power with no idea what to do with it. But Robert had someone to trust (Jon Arryn) to run the kingdoms, But by the time Cercei enters the political scene she is more paraniod than I ever expected but I guess its because there is no one she can rely on anymore. She sees herlesf surronded by enemies who want political power just as much as she does. In her POV chapters she hardly thinks of the threats outside Kings Landing, but instead she turns her attention to the Tyrells. If King Aerys ever was a POV i think his thoughts would be similar to Cercei

But I guess thats what power does to people, especially to those who gain power in unstable times or by being cunning ( IMO those who use cunning methods to push people to get to the top of the pyramid of power are always afraid they might be the ones to fall of next)

But I loved her chapters and how she always thinks that everyone might be as (Cunning) as she is.

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Is Cersei literally a psychopath?

Before her POV chapters, I took it for granted that she truly loved her chldren; after FFC, I'm wondering if she's just faking it.

We never see her devote a single thought to the concept of right & wrong, or show the least empathy towards another human being. Even with Tommen, I don't believe she ever explicitly empathizes with him; all of her thoughts treat him as an object - a possession, really. She fears for his life, but never for his own sake - only as a reflection of herself. I don't believe she ever devotes a single thought to his happiness for his own sake.

I'm not a psychologist (so I'd appreciate input from anyone who is) but much of it seems to match the clinical definitions of psychopathy I've read. She has emotions, but seemingly no empathy. She might understand the concept intellectually, and uses that to manipulate people like Jaime, but does not seem to actually possess it.

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We never see her devote a single thought to the concept of right & wrong, or show the least empathy towards another human being. Even with Tommen, I don't believe she ever explicitly empathizes with him; all of her thoughts treat him as an object - a possession, really. She fears for his life, but never for his own sake - only as a reflection of herself. I don't believe she ever devotes a single thought to his happiness for his own sake.

This is what made me disappointed with the Cersei chapters. While I was reading I felt like her title should be promptly changed to the Mad Queen. GRRM took the easier route by writing Cersei as this unrepentant bitch who lacks any leadership skills. She is constantly worried about the prophesy and cares for no one but herself. We were never given any hint as to the extent of Cersei's madness in the previous books. Since she was such a static character in AFFC, I was only looking forward to her downfall. I hope he just kills her off soon (like he did with the Mad King) or gives her a dramatic turn-around.

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I wasn't disappointed because I never had a high opinion of her in the first place. She always came across to me as at least a little bit mad. You would have to be incredibly reckless to bear three illegitimate children and then continue the masquerade of their right to the throne after Stannis has revealed the truth to the world. The prophecy made sense to me. It explained her hatred of Tyrion, her over-protectiveness toward her children, her dependency on Jaime, her fear of losing power. I loved how it is being fulfilled as a result of some of the actions she is doing to stop it (e.g. she was so protective of Joffrey, he turned into a vile, spoiled monster, which led to his downfall...)

I hated her for her treatment of Jaime and was very delighted by the end to the book. She's a complex one but an enjoyable read above all other things. I hope GRRM keeps her in the game and does something new with her in the future.

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I wasn't disappointed because I never had a high opinion of her in the first place. She always came across to me as at least a little bit mad. You would have to be incredibly reckless to bear three illegitimate children and then continue the masquerade of their right to the throne after Stannis has revealed the truth to the world. The prophecy made sense to me. It explained her hatred of Tyrion, her over-protectiveness toward her children, her dependency on Jaime, her fear of losing power. I loved how it is being fulfilled as a result of some of the actions she is doing to stop it (e.g. she was so protective of Joffrey, he turned into a vile, spoiled monster, which led to his downfall...)

I hated her for her treatment of Jaime and was very delighted by the end to the book. She's a complex one but an enjoyable read above all other things. I hope GRRM keeps her in the game and does something new with her in the future.

I was more interested in seeing a Cersei that was more complex than a woman living in the shadow of a prophecy for the last 25 years of her life. GRRM could've made her more complicated but instead she's quite a simple character when compared to LF, Jaime, Tyrion etc.

Of course the storyline itself fits otherwise Martin would not be at such a high level, but I hoped for a deeper Cersei. You don't have to be reckless to bear three illegitimate children, people do that everyday nowadays and a thousand years ago as well. Continuing to "masquerade" their right to throne when your very life depends on it isn't that bizarre. Yes it's risky, but the Cersai in AFFC was conceited and evil beyond anything we saw in the previous works.

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