146 replies to this topic

[the sweetling]

BastardSword, on Jan 22 2006, 23.34, said:

Where is this convo? A Ned POV or a Bran?

Thanks!

It's in Bran 3 in ACOK :

"Something his father had told him once when he was little came back to him suddenly. He had asked Lord Eddard if the Kingsguard were truly the finest knights in the Seven Kingdoms. “No longer,” he answered, “but once they were a marvel, a shining lesson to the world.”
“Was there one who was best of all?”
“The finest knight I ever saw was Ser Arthur Dayne, who fought with a blade called Dawn, forged from the heart of a fallen star. They called him the Sword of the Morning, and he would have killed me but for Howland Reed.” Father had gotten sad then, and he would say no more. Bran wished he had asked him what he meant.
"

[Mutethunder]

nvm

Edited by Mutethunder, 23 January 2006 - 04:32 PM.

[bastard guidon]

Some speculations on Tyrion2:
        Haldon, Ser Duck, and Bennaro (obviously a red priest) are associates of Griff and young Griff in a sellsword company.  The Golden Company is mentioned as having broken its contract with Myr and is marching west toward Volantis.  This sounds like two competing mercenary companies racing toward a target.  But I wonder if it simply two parts of the same company joing forces or a meeting of allies.
          And is Illyrio's gift to "young Griff" a sword?  Perhaps a legendary valyrian blade--either blackfire or dark sister?
          Lastly, will there be any Targaryen descendants making an entrance into the plot as in Bittersteel?   :D


"The greater the odds, the greater the glory."

[Ealasaid]

BS -

You really want Arthur Dayne to have survived, don't you?  bye the bye, the Great Dayne comment was superior.

But AD would ancient, wouln't he?  Older than Selmy?

[Steve Moss]

BastardSword, on Jan 22 2006, 15.17, said:

How 'bout Griff is Ser Arthur Dayne, who was allowed to take Aegon (one of Ned's promises to Lyanna) and, with his sister Ashara, go across the sea? And Young Griff is Aegon Targaryen?

How bout them apples?

A possibility, as I am of the opinion Arthur Dayne didn't die at t ToJ.  One does not name your son (Edric) after your brother's (Arthur) killer (Eddard), or after the man (Eddard) who allegedly caused your sister's (Ashara's suicide).  And as Ned never thinks that he killed Arthur Dayne, only that Howland Reed saved him from him, the odds that Arthur made it out of the ToJ alive are pretty decent, I think.

[Archmaester Marwyn]

Ealasaid, on Feb 9 2006, 08.25, said:

But AD would ancient, wouln't he?  Older than Selmy?

No.
Selmy fought in war of Ninepenny Kings and Dayne didn't. Selmy is older.

[Xanrn]

Archmaester Marwyn, on Feb 10 2006, 09.33, said:

No.
Selmy fought in war of Ninepenny Kings and Dayne didn't. Selmy is older.

Well Ashara was Neds age or so, Arthur obiviously wasn't the oldest son..

So maybe +10 or so to Ned's age.

Say somewhere in the 40s..

[Ser Taron Dax]

You're forgetting the part where Ned and Howard pull down the TOJ to build cairns for everyone who died. I'm not gonna build a freaking huge pile of rocks for somebody who's not dead. Dayne is dead.

[Paul H]

stevem, on Feb 9 2006, 22.40, said:

...Arthur made it out of the ToJ alive are pretty decent, I think.

No, Dayne would have never bent the knee or run.  As he told Ned right before they fought, "Our knees do not bend easily," said Ser Arthur Dayne.  He also agreed with the Whitebull when he said that Kingsguard do not flee.  I doubt that Dayne would want to live after he failed his duty to prince, king and such.  That was the kind of men they were...

[Ealasaid]

Ten men met that morning.  Ned and Howland Reed built 8 cairns.  If Arthur Dayne did not perish there, who did they honor?

How 'bout this way out there theory?  The cairns are there to honor a battle.  The wounded men left to form the Golden Company?

[Xanrn]

Cairns are a pile of rocks ontop of a shallow grave, hardly -ing honourable.

5 Dead Northmen, 3 Dead Kingsguard = 8 Cairns.

Lyanna was taken somewhere and the flesh boiled from her bones like they did to Ned.

Ned then took the bones north.

[Ealasaid]

Xanrn, on Feb 13 2006, 16.00, said:

Cairns are a pile of rocks ontop of a shallow grave, hardly -ing honourable.

5 Dead Northmen, 3 Dead Kingsguard = 8 Cairns.

Lyanna was taken somewhere and the flesh boiled from her bones like they did to Ned.

Ned then took the bones north.

Exactly.  I cannot subscribe to the A Dayne is alive theory.  Because I believe that the bodies are covered with the stone from the tower of joy.

And yet.  Some people say a prayer and place a stone when they start a journey.  Some Native Americans place a stone in a sacred spot.  So, some cairns are different.

I was merely suggesting a crackpot theory.  Sorry.

[Ser Taron Dax]

The Golden Company was founded by Bittersteel 100 years ago anyway. Now if they left to JOIN the Golden Company....

:rolleyes:

Edited by Ser Taron Dax, 14 February 2006 - 05:25 PM.

[Ealasaid]

Ser Taron Dax, on Feb 14 2006, 16.25, said:

The Golden Company was founded by Bittersteel 100 years ago anyway. Now if they left to JOIN the Golden Company....

:rolleyes:

Let me guess. You picked this up from the Hedge Knight stories.  I have got to get those books.  And Bittersteel is..?

It's a little embarrassing to get sideswiped in the details.

[Ser Brendan the Voyager]

I was under the impression that the Golden Company was the oldest of the mercenary groups in the free cities.  I think it was GRRm who said this in So Spake Martin.  I think they are a lot older than 100 years.

[Ser Taron Dax]

Eh, Bittersteel.

His real name was Aegor Rivers; His mother was a Bracken and his father was Aegon IV Targaryen, "The Unworthy"; This was the guy who had something like six mistresses and innumerable bastards. Of note were Aegon's three Great Bastards, Daemon Blackfyre(whose mother was Daena Targaryen), Aegor Rivers(Bittersteel), and Brynden Rivers(Bloodraven, whose mother was a Blackwood).

After Daemon was killed during his rebellion, Bittersteel took his children and ran to the Free Cities. I'm pretty sure he founded the Golden Company because their motto is "Beneath the gold, bitter steel."

[Ser Edmure of Coldstones]

Ok, back to Tyrion on the thread:

GRRM clearly brings back Tyrion's love of dragons to this chapter.  We knew that from the very beginning of the series when he was reading a book about dragons on the way to the wall (IIRC) -- we assume he has read many books on dragons.

I don't think it's a nuts theory to think that Tyrion is destined to become the dragon trainer.  In Dany I, we know that she talks about not being able to control her dragons due to lack of time, which is the reason the dragon eats the girl.  It is also fortold by Quaithe that the lion is going to show up, along with a veritable menagerie of people.

I could see Dany being skeptical of Tyrion until he imparts some sort of "wisdom" about Dragon training and she sees fit to allow him to train them.  It would also fit in the theory of the three headed dragons.

I've read similar on old old posts, but I think it's worth noticing the GRRM continues to foreshadow Tyrion's love for Dragons, and he is building a compelling reason why Dany will need his help, whereas before it was pure conjecture.

[roeh61]

I think Tyrion will win Dany over with the story of Tysha.  He will also seek out Tysha.  If Tysha is still alive it further invalidates Tyrion's marriage to Sansa.

I forgot to add that the treatment of Tysha is why Tyrion killed his father (or the best and most pithy explanation he could give).  He could also tell her the story of Jaime and Cersei (as he now hates Jamie) which leads to further illegitimatization of Tommon and Mycella's claim to the Iron Throne.

Tyrion could also share with Dany all that he knows of Dragons (recall he liked reading of them).  I like the theory that Tyrion becomes Dany's hand after all this.  it seems...appropriate.

I only started reading these series in November.  So i don't know how dependable these spoilers are, any words of wisdom from someone who has suffered through these long waits between books?

I've been reading the Wheel of Time series since about 1993!  I fear i'm going to fall into the same cycle with this series (i already burned through the 4 available books all too quickly) of waiting years between books and then reading the books in a weekend.

[Jon Targaryen]

roeh61, on Apr 1 2006, 12.16, said:

I fear i'm going to fall into the same cycle with this series (i already burned through the 4 available books all too quickly) of waiting years between books and then reading the books in a weekend.

Unfortunately, you probably will.

[Hellian]

Why does everyone think that Tyrion will get a good reception by Daenerys? Or that Illyrio hasn’t got a hidden agenda towards Tyrion? My guess is that Tyrion is a gift to Daernerys from Ilyrio to show loyalty. She is definitely not gone forget that Tyrion is the brother of the one that killed her father. And I don’t think that she will be forgiving towards any Lannisters or Starks no matter what people say around her.  Even if Tyrion swears his loyalty and everything all she will see is a Lannisters.

About Illyrio I am pretty sure he has only his own interest, he is not so fond of Varys and Tyrion is only an opportunity to better his own position in the eyes of Daenerys