298 replies to this topic

[The Watcher]

My dad loves the Wheel of Time series, and I need a new series to read.  However, I read the prologue to the first book and didn't get sucked in.  Does anyone have more extensive thoughts on the book and whether or not fans of the political aspect of ASOIAF will enjoy it?

[Jerec]

The political stuff doesn't really kick in until Book 3 onwards.

[Andystoteles]

The Watcher, on 19 July 2011 - 12:41 AM, said:

My dad loves the Wheel of Time series, and I need a new series to read.  However, I read the prologue to the first book and didn't get sucked in.  Does anyone have more extensive thoughts on the book and whether or not fans of the political aspect of ASOIAF will enjoy it?

Well, the political aspects in WOT takes place mostly behind the curtain. The main characters are farmers/villagers so the finer points of politics is way over their heads.
Even if they reach positions of authority you can really tell that they haven´t got a clue about what´s going on.

Other than that, it takes a while to get good. Then it gets better.

(there´s a lot of bitching about the later books but thats just some internet-cojones-groupthink thingy)

[rayvio]

I enjoy the series. it's a bit slow paced at times, and sometimes you just want to slap the characters for being so stupid, but it's a good read. there's also some great moments when some of the characters finally get long awaited comeuppance (and not just the evil characters, there's a certain trio who finally get put in their place about their treatment of a friend) and other than occasionally wanting to slap them the characters are well written and generally have interesting stories
there's also a few prophecy-riddles (often in the form of visions or dreams) which are fun to try to figure out

[jdiddyesquire]

If you like the political stuff... check out:

First Law Trilogy by Joe Abercrombie - Glotka is a great political character.

The Long Price Quartet by Daniel Abraham - Amazing. All political basically.  Very little action.

The Dragon's Path by Daniel Abraham

Tigana by Guy Gavriel Kay

Kushiel's Dart by Jacqueline Carey - graphic sex scenes, be warned.

That should get you started.

[Tormund Midgetsbane]

I fucking give up.

[Reposado]

If you're already disinterested by the prologue, I would say don't start a series that lasts a dozen books. There are tons of recommendation threads on the forum. Start looking around in those.

[kcf]

jdiddyesquire, on 19 July 2011 - 08:57 AM, said:

If you like the political stuff... check out:

First Law Trilogy by Joe Abercrombie - Glotka is a great political character.

The Long Price Quartet by Daniel Abraham - Amazing. All political basically.  Very little action.

The Dragon's Path by Daniel Abraham

Tigana by Guy Gavriel Kay

Kushiel's Dart by Jacqueline Carey - graphic sex scenes, be warned.

That should get you started.

Also The Nessantico Cycle by S.L. Farrell (first book is A Magic of Twighlight) and Sasha by Joel Shepherd.

[Lady Nerevar]

I hated the first book, but enjoyed the other 12. The first one is a learning excessive for the author, reader, and characters, and is very little like anything that comes after. So if you do decide to give them a try, I'd say read past the first book before giving them up.

[Maithanet]

I don't recommend WoT to anyone, in spite of the fact that I do enjoy the series.  Because it is just too big a commitment.  There are going to be 14 books in all, and they are long, really long.  And while the book does some things well, even exceptionally, they also have some glaring weaknesses.  

Strengths:  Strong climaxes for each book.  Interesting magic system.  Fully realized worldbuilding.  Truly epic scope.  

Weaknesses:  Women characters will drive you crazy, and the men aren't much better.  Plot meanders and falls of the cliff at times (particularly in books 8-10).  Character armor for all the main protagonists.  Robert Jordan is dead, and Brandon Sanderson is finishing the series, which isn't a good thing.

[cseresz]

The Watcher, on 19 July 2011 - 12:41 AM, said:

However, I read the prologue to the first book and didn't get sucked in.

Dragonmount or Ravens?


Oh, there is a SEARCH box ...

[The Watcher]

cseresz, on 19 July 2011 - 01:20 PM, said:

Dragonmount or Ravens?


Oh, there is a SEARCH box ...

[#10145] Search is not enabled on the forums at this time.

[Grack21]

Kevin Midgetsbane, on 19 July 2011 - 10:04 AM, said:

I fucking give up.

Yeah, I apologize for yelling at you that one time.

Beware the fl00b, for they are legion....

[Datepalm]

The Watcher, on 19 July 2011 - 01:32 PM, said:

[#10145] Search is not enabled on the forums at this time.

Look back a few pages, opinions on WOT aren't exactly scarce around here.


That said, the prologue of EoTW, with Lews Therin at Dragonmount, has I think some of the strongest writing anywhere in the series. If that didn't do it for you, don't bother, theres other books.

Why, theres even a list of them in a thread pinned at the top of this very forum.

[jdiddyesquire]

Datepalm, on 19 July 2011 - 02:16 PM, said:

Why, theres even a list of them in a thread pinned at the top of this very forum.

No way!

[fionwe1987]

If the prologue you mean is Ravens, then its no wonder if you didn't like it. Dragonmount is generally better rated, and if you disliked it, I doubt the rest of the series will be to your liking.

The politicking takes some time to come to the fore, though it is very much present in the background right from book 2.

The politics is complex, more so than in most books. It is definitely better conceived than in aSoIaF. However, while the politics make sense from a plot perspective, a lot of the players are cardboard cutouts whose motives don't have much depth. This can make it hard to care, even if the moves and counter-moves are very well executed. One great positive is the absence of super-genius politicians who are infallible. Makes a lot of the politics easier to swallow.

That said, there are very slow patches in the series, the characterization is not for everyone, the length is truly daunting, and the prose serviceable, but nothing to write home about.

[Datepalm]

say, whas this 'Raven's prologue everyone is on about? Is there some new edition or something? My copy of EotW, of unknown age, but no younger than 1999, just has the good old Dragonmount prologue, followed straight by chapter 1 with that fucking rising wind.

[moot]

I enjoyed the first three books, but the decline set in by the fifth book, and I stopped reading altogether after book seven. I thought I'd flip through the books in the bookstore when they came out, just to see how certain story lines ended up, but I only did that for book eight. Haven't summoned enough “care” to read more, even though I know the end is nigh.

I disagree with fionwe1987 in that I found the politics complex for its own sake. The liberal use of deus ex machina makes all the intricate politicking pointless in the end.

I've never been a fan of zombies, and the use of them is the one thing I don't like about aSoIaF. But in WoT, non-deaths of major characters (trying not to spoil here) takes the bite out of the conspiracies and networking.

One of the biggest structural differences between WoT and aSoIaF is that the magic is evenly spread around in aSoIaF so it is used by competing factions against each other, none with more power than the others (so far). In WoT, there is mainly good power and then there is evil Dark Lord power. With an entity in WoT that is nearly omnipotent and omniscient — or at least vastly more so than the heroes — none of the politics matters. It’s all just busy work between action scenes in a slow crawl to the finale and final battle in the final book. The real story question is will Rand the hero defeat the Dark One before he goes insane and dies? None of the conspiracies and political battles actually matter because when the Dragon faces the Dark One, it will destroy the world anyway (or so the prophecy goes). Politics won't actually matter until after the Dragon wins, which should be in the last 80 pages of the last book.

With aSoIaF, though, the politicking is what is getting us to the finale and final battle. The only equivalent in aSoIaF to the Dark One are the Others. If the Westerosi don't figure out how to destroy the Others, it won't matter who cut who's throat at dinner last night.

Like I said, I'm not for zombies, or the undead in general. But (and I haven't read aDwD yet), I have a feeling the battle with the Others is just one square in the quilt and not the end game (sorry for mixing metaphors). [Please, don't fail me, GRRM!]

[fionwe1987]

I'm confused. The Others pose as much as a risk to Westeros as the Dark One does to Randland. In both cases, the politics is distracting from the true issues that need to be faced. In both cases, the politicking has shaped the way the real battle will be fought.

The difference is, in WoT, the politicking is happening despite everyone knowing that there's an imminent threat from the Dark One, whereas in Westeros, most of the players in the game believe the Others are not real.

Datepalm: "Ravens" is the prologue of the kid's version of Eye of the World, where they split the book into two. This prologue is from the point of view of a nine year old Egwene seeking to be the best at carrying water, and adds absolutely nothing to the story. All it does is presents the major points of the story in simpler way, by having Tam basically explain the Breaking to the kids of the Two Rivers.

[Barnes]

I've read the entire series (not including the latest book) over the last couple of years, I enjoyed the series on the whole, a bit light/tame for my tastes, I like the more darker/gritty fantasy.

I did put book one down a few years back, but didn't have a problem my 2nd time through. I wouldn't read them back to back to back, I read one book, then 1 or 2 different books then back to Jordan again, helped keep the stories/characters from getting boring.

I generally lightly skim or totally disregard the prologue, there a book killer for me, dunno why authors even bother.