Jump to content

[ADwD Spoilers] Is Varys on Team Blackfyre?


Kadence

Recommended Posts

We don't know whether Aegon is legit or not, there's things in the text that could be read both ways. But I think it's possible that he's really a Blackfyre and not a Targ, nor some random kid with the right features, nor Ned and Ashara's kid etc. Supposedly the Blackfyre male line is extinct, but this might be yet another ruse to protect the last one.

And Varys might be another Blackfyre, or a Blackfyre bastard or relative himself. He always has that shaved head, perhaps concealing his true hair color like Egg (though there is the eyebrow hair color issue...but if that didn't matter for Egg it wouldn't matter for Varys). Has Varys' eye color ever been mentioned?

When it comes to loyalties he claims they are to the "realm" but he did whisper to Aerys about Rhaeghar and Harrenhal. I'm not sure he was looking out for Targ interests when he was serving Aerys. So why the sudden diehard Targ support after Robert became king? The Viserys and Aegon conspiracies were huge risks for the Spider to take - especially if he really did switch out Aegon as claimed, there would have been a very high risk of discovery for him there. And if he's really concerned about having a wise king, why not just off Cersei and let Kevan teach Tommen, or something like that? Seems like there's much easier ways to have a good king than putting a boy on the throne, one who Varys has maybe never even interacted with personally. And spreading mass chaos and civil war to get that kid on the throne doesn't seem so great for the realm or the smallfolk either.

The one thing I don't understand, is if Varys and Illyrio were planning on supporting Aegon, why bother with Viserys and Dany? Perhaps just to have multiple aces, and if you're a Blackfyre I guess distant kin is better than nothing, even the blood of ancient enemies. But I don't know, something seems off here. Not sure if Martin will explain this properly. The Aegon-Golden Company contract seems to have been around a similar time as the Viserys-Arianne contract. Do we have any indication which came first timeline wise? Anyway, I don't think the late Miles Toyne would have just let Viserys be king without doing anything. And I'm not really sure what Doran would have done if Aegon popped up - Aegon would supposedly be his nephew after all, whereas Viserys was just a possible son in law (one who would quickly have been judged to be insane), and Aegon would have the better claim while still being a potential non-insane husband for Arianne (cousin-cest would be mild by Targ standards). When Doran rose for Viserys or Dany, Toyne and Young Griff would probably show up quickly to say "yo, hold up", and that seems like a big mess - at least with Dany they had the marriage plan. I hope that Martin details just what the hell Varys and Illyrio were doing with these dual conspiracies involving male heirs.

I myself am not sure I believe in this idea of Varys supporting a Blackfyre Aegon or if I consider it probable (I myself would prefer him to be Ned and Ashara's kid but don't think that will be the case). But I think it's a possibility that Aegon is a hidden Blackfyre (unbeknownst to himself) and Varys is on that team.

There's also the mystery of the sword Blackfyre - I have to think this sword will turn up at some point, for the Targs of all people to not have a Valyrian sword seems like a noteworthy issue that needs to be resolved. I'd be very surprised if the sword Blackfyre didn't turn up at some point in the series when it's been so prominent in the backstory. It's possible that Dany will find the sword in her travels or something like that, but I think it might also be possible that the sword will end up in Aegon's possession. Perhaps in a scenario where people still believe he's a Targ but it would be a hint from the author that he's a Blackfyre.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think Varys is on Team Blackfyre. And Illyrio is a Blackfyre. It seems to me it would take more than a huge sum of gold for the Golden Company to break contract. A Blackfyre forcing them to break contract seems the likeliest explanation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think Varys is on Team Blackfyre. And Illyrio is a Blackfyre. It seems to me it would take more than a huge sum of gold for the Golden Company to break contract. A Blackfyre forcing them to break contract seems the likeliest explanation.

I think Illyrio's wife may have been a Blackfyre rather than Illyrio himself as she is described as silvery haired. And it would still be a Blackfyre ordering them to break contract if it was singed on the behalf 'Aegon' or by his mother before she died.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

what really confuses me here is that Varys and Illyrio seem to have spread themselves so thin.

They have TOO many aces, you know?

Was Varys behind the Dornish marriage pact with Viserys?

If he was, that means he was playing the Aegon angle, the Viserys/Dorne angle, the Viserys/Dany/Dothraki angle, and then, later, replacing the Viserys/Dorne angle with Dany and her dragons.

It seems to me that someone plotting to bring an old family back into power wouldn't have 3 or 4 different options for it all going on at the same time...because if more than one succeeds you're in deep shit.

Someone like Varys, a very smart person, would have set up his schemes to have them running in order, not simultaneously. As in, first try this, if that doesn't work, move on to next option, etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think Illyrio's wife may have been a Blackfyre rather than Illyrio himself as she is described as silvery haired. And it would still be a Blackfyre ordering them to break contract if it was singed on the behalf 'Aegon' or by his mother before she died.

The Blackfyres had black hair as I recall.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't see any reason to doubt that the Blackfyre line is extinct in the male line, as claimed in ADWD. If Aegon is a Blackfyre, he could certainly be descended from the female line. It's not like being from the male line in some way grants him legitimacy- Dany still trumps him in the succession regardless of whether he comes from the male or female Blackfyre line.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't see any reason to doubt that the Blackfyre line is extinct in the male line, as claimed in ADWD. If Aegon is a Blackfyre, he could certainly be descended from the female line. It's not like being from the male line in some way grants him legitimacy- Dany still trumps him in the succession regardless of whether he comes from the male or female Blackfyre line.

The Blackfyre's don't seem to care much about the laws of succesion when they're compared with Targs, i think they proved this when they started several rebellions and tried to conquer Westeros

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't see any reason to doubt that the Blackfyre line is extinct in the male line, as claimed in ADWD. If Aegon is a Blackfyre, he could certainly be descended from the female line. It's not like being from the male line in some way grants him legitimacy- Dany still trumps him in the succession regardless of whether he comes from the male or female Blackfyre line.

Illyrio's wife may have been the Blackfyre. In anycase, they would need to swap him with Rheagar's son taking over his claim. Thus forcing the real Aegon to be raised as an unknown who Dany thinks is beneath her to consider, yet still wants him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I posted this in another thread, but I think all conversations regarding Varys' loyalties should ponder this:

Was Varys really part of Aerys' downfall? I actually think there is no real evidence for this, and some to the contrary.

We have a few POV characters being told Varys helped Aerys go downhill, but that's all opinion (sorta like how we first hear of Rhaegar as a kidnapping rapist).

Varys tried to keep Aerys from letting Tywin into KL. If he wanted Aerys out would he do that?

Also, we have plenty of hints that Aerys' descent into madness was gradual, and that it started well before Varys was even in Westeros. So we're supposed to believe Varys contributed to Aerys' insanity, but we can be near certain his insanity was gaining steam on it's own, anyway.

Seems to me there's a chance Varys may have gotten a bad rap for that when it was not deserved.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Varys is on Team Shavepate.

...he was doing it before it was cool.

HOLY SHITBRIX. Varys is the perfumed seneschal, too.

EDIT:

Also, we have plenty of hints that Aerys' descent into madness was gradual, and that it started well before Varys was even in Westeros. So we're supposed to believe Varys contributed to Aerys' insanity, but we can be near certain his insanity was gaining steam on it's own, anyway.

I agree with this. I'm pretty sure Varys was a symptom of Aerys's madness, rather than a cause of it. Aerys brought him into the court because he was paranoid and wanted someone to inform on his enemies. Varys then did his job, fed information, which then further fueled Aerys's paranoia because KL is filled with asslickers, moneygrubbers and backstabbers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think Varys is on Team Blackfyre. And Illyrio is a Blackfyre. It seems to me it would take more than a huge sum of gold for the Golden Company to break contract. A Blackfyre forcing them to break contract seems the likeliest explanation.

The Golden Company did not break their contract because of Ilyrio's money. They did it to honor previously signed contract to support the Targ restoration. It's right there in Jon Connington's chapter.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

HOLY SHITBRIX. Varys is the perfumed seneschal, too.

Was that sarcasm? At any rate, it reminds me of Varys rant about Aegon knowing kingship was a duty to the people, while Dany, like Tommen, was raised believing it is her right. Indirect confrontation approaching.

As for the topic: Didnt Illiro say something regarding blood when Tyrion asked him about how he convinced the companny or something?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Was that sarcasm? At any rate, it reminds me of Varys rant about Aegon knowing kingship was a duty to the people, while Dany, like Tommen, was raised believing it is her right. Indirect confrontation approaching.

As for the topic: Didnt Illiro say something regarding blood when Tyrion asked him about how he convinced the companny or something?

Yes, he says some contracts are written in ink and some in blood. BUT, Connington and Toyne seemed to actually believe that Aegon was a Targaryen, not a Blackfyre. The Golden Company thinks a Targaryen is taking them home.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...