[ADwD Spoilers] Is Varys on Team Blackfyre?

[Auska]

You can say that they would want Viserys to conquer, then suddenly bring out Aegon with the better Targ claim once the Targs have won or are winning. But, nobody doubted who Viserys was - if Viserys had any military success, why would he ever reliquish his claim to some supposed nephew who has no proof? This still does not make much sense.

The long game; it could simply be that Viserys (and Dany) were lightning rods, as well as a plan B. Give the enemy a visible target and divert attention from your real prize. The society is also middle ages-ish: the chances of a kid dying before adulthood are significant, so given the chance to have multiple baskets, sticking your eggs in one is unwise.

…

Some posts make too much of a difference between Targaryens and “Blackfyres” (who in reality were just supporters of a Targaryen bastard, the one the previous king preferred to succeed him no less).

…

Varys is a careful man. While I like the idea of wordplay in his name (Va-rys = Black-fire), it's just an unnecessary risk I don't think he'd take.

[fuelpagan]

They are Daemon's descendants, not Bittersteel's. Bittersteel never took the name Blackfyre, just like Bloodraven didn't. That was Daemon's name since he carried the sword.

Illyrio may be a descendant of Bittersteel. Aegor Rivers had black hair and so does Illyrio. I'm interested in what blade he lived by while growing up poor. Also interested in what "Gift" he put in those chests for Young Griff might be.

Yes which is why I doubt Strickland knows the truth. And obviously Connington knows nothing. But I think Toyne did in fact know - Toyne suddenly deciding to make a contract to restore Rhaeghar's kid makes much less sense, than him trying to restore the Blackfyre heir pretending to be Rhaeghar's kid. Toyne and Illyrio were probably BSing Connington together.

Exactly. In order for the ruse to work, they must keep Connington thinking he knows what is going on. I also find it interesting that Strickland calls Illyrio "the fat man" almost like he is staying vague on purpose because he knows Illyrio by another name.

[Manderly`s Personal Chef]

Tyrion doesn`t call Illyrio by his name. Does that mean Tyrion knows who Illyrio truly is?

[Aquaman]

Aegon, being Rhaegar's son, has the better claim than his aunt. That's probably why Varys is supporting him.

I've heard it speculated that it has been implied that Aegon is an imposter...can someone point out the examples?

[The Dark Griffin]

My pet theory, as others have expressed elsewhere and with more eloquence, is that Illyrio's dead mistress (Serra) was a Blackfyre. Aerion Brightflame spent some time in Lys and fathered a number of bastards with fair hair and blue or purple eyes. She's one of those, and Aegon is her son. So even if he is a mummer's dragon, he's still a dragon. At least, I hope that's how it all pans out.

[Golden Skull]

I'm so happy other people think that there is an Aegon/Blackfyre connection.

All I really have to add is that Moroqqo's vision in the fires was of Tyrion snarling between dark and bright, new and old dragons. The Blackfyre's have a dark black dragon as their standard, the Targs have a red one. The Blackfyre dragon is new, the targ old. Tyrion has been in the company of the dark, new dragon (Aegon) and will presumably be in the company of Dany (bright, old dragon). And tyrion is always snarling.

[darrylzero]

My pet theory, as others have expressed elsewhere and with more eloquence, is that Illyrio's dead mistress (Serra) was a Blackfyre. Aerion Brightflame spent some time in Lys and fathered a number of bastards with fair hair and blue or purple eyes. She's one of those, and Aegon is her son. So even if he is a mummer's dragon, he's still a dragon. At least, I hope that's how it all pans out.

I like Serra Blackfyre line of thinking too, but if she's descended from Aerion, she wouldn't be a Blackfyre, would she? She'd just be a distant Targ relative.

I'm so happy other people think that there is an Aegon/Blackfyre connection.

All I really have to add is that Moroqqo's vision in the fires was of Tyrion snarling between dark and bright, new and old dragons. The Blackfyre's have a dark black dragon as their standard, the Targs have a red one. The Blackfyre dragon is new, the targ old. Tyrion has been in the company of the dark, new dragon (Aegon) and will presumably be in the company of Dany (bright, old dragon). And tyrion is always snarling.

That is suggestive. Could be.

If Varys is a Blackfyre loyalist, do you think he'll want to reveal Aegon as a Blackfyre eventually? Or would he be comfortable with a Blackfyre secretly in place, when everyone believes the Targaryen dynasty lives on.

[Elric of Melnibone]

Blackfyre was the sword the Targ kings wielded, until it was given to Daemon Blackfyre

When Jon the Fiddler tried to claim to be Blackfyre's son, people abandoned him when he didn't even have the sword

The sword has been conspicuously absent for decades-- if it suddenly appeared in Westeros in Aegon's hand, that would be a nice reveal.

I've also questioned whether Varys is actually a eunuch or not too. His voice wavers, and the fact that he is bald and sometimes sports stubble when he's incognito. Eunuchs should have a full head of hair, so either he shaves it (because it's silver like a Targ) or he's not a eunuch.

Why can't Aegon be non-eunuch Varys' child, secretly groomed to act like a perfect Manchurian king? Not much more crackpot than him being Illyrio's son

[History of Westeros]

There are lots of clues that Aegon is Illyrio's son, none that I know of that point to Varys being a fake-eunuch or the father of Aegon.

[Blizzard]

I personally think Varys could have a deeper story, we know he can change his face and features (possibly linked to the Faceless Men) And we know he has children assassins also that could relate to Arya and the Kindly man.

[Slurms McKenzie]

Hmm, I kinda like the idea that Aegon is a Blackfyre, and Varys and Illyrio are involved in a cool conspiracy of sorts....still if Aegon is an imposter, it's likely he'll be killed by Dany, due that prophecy thing she had about killing liars and all that business........don't really want to see Aegon dead......or even Varys (maybe).

[ChrisJM89]

I see Aegon a being Blackfyre. Simply because of his hair colour and eye colour.

Are Violet eyes and silver hair recessive?

Considering the possiblity of L + R = J then Valarian genes are recessive (Even the more doubtful N + A = J would make Valarian Violet eyes recessive, Jon has stark grey eyes, not Valarian violet or illiac). We all know blonde hair is recessive. (Roberts bastard Gendry, his mother had blonde hair.)

I would guess that means baby Aegon would of had Dornish features from Elia, hazel eyes and Brown/Black hair not typical Targ colours. Obviously as Aegon was "killed" as a child, everyone would of assumed he would be the typical Targ like Dany, Rhaegar and all Targ's past. Maybe why Tyrion believed him to be 'Aegon' and why Jon Con believed it aswell. If he looks like a Targ and his name is Aegon and he believes he is the son of Rhaegar, how can anyone say otherwise.

Considering the look at bastardry and the look at genetics (minus inbred physical deformities... just mental) in the story, I'm surprised no one has said as much. Aegon can't be "Aegon VI". He'd have the Dornish look. (If violet eyes and silver hair are recessive, which I'm guessing it is). His sister Rhaenys had the Dornish look, there'd be a 75% chance he'd have it too.

Therefore his mostly likely a Blackfyre or just a random boy from Lys or another free city.

I can see Illyrio being his father, consider he has yellow/blonde hair (The HBO series... forgot that.) and Serra has blond hair with silver streaks. Pretty good chance of him coming from their union. Now is Illyrio or Serra a Blackfyre through the female line? I could see that happening and I'd like it to be the case.

[Blizzard]

I see Aegon being Blackfyre. Simply because of his hair colour and eye colour.

Is Violet eye and silver hair recessive?

Considering the possiblity of L + R = J then Valarian genes are recessive. We all know blonde hair is recessive. (Roberts bastard Gendry, his mother had blonde hair.)

I would guess that means baby Aegon would of had Dornish features from Elia, hazel eyes and Brown/Black hair not typical Targ colours. Obviously as Aegon was "killed" as a child, everyone would of assumed he would be the typical Targ like Dany, Rhaegar and all Targ's past. Maybe why Tyrion believed him to be 'Aegon' and why Jon Con believed it aswell. If he looks like a Targ and his name is Aegon and he believes he is the son of Rhaegar, how can anyone say otherwise.

Considering all the bastardry and all of genetics (minus inbred physical deformities... just mental) in the story, I'm surprised no one has said as much. Aegon can't be "Aegon IV". He'd have the Dornish look. (If violet eyes and silver hair is recessive, which I'm guessing it is). His sister Rhaenys had the Dornish look, there'd be a 75% chance he'd have it too.

Therefore his mostly likely a Blackfyre or just a random boy from Lys or another free city.

I can see Illyrio being his father, consider his has yellow/blonde hair (The HBO series... forgot that.) and Serra has blond hair with silver streaks. Pretty good chance of him coming from their union. Now is Illyrio or Serra a Blackfyre through the female line? I could see that happening and I'd like it to be the case.

Those are good points, it would be a shock for Varys to come out as a Prince though.

[tze]

All this talk about Varys reminds me of a conversation between Jon and Selyse about the abandoned castles on the Wall:

“I had been given to understand that those castles were ruins. Dismal places, bleak and cold, hardly more than heaps of rubble. At Eastwatch we heard talk of rats and spiders.”

The cold will have killed the spiders by now, thought Jon, and the rats may be a useful source of meat come winter.

I think GRRM is foreshadowing that Varys the Spider won't be in control now that winter has come. Cold kills spiders. (The Others supposedly use giant ice spiders that we haven't seen yet, but someone like Varys can't hope to stand against them anyway.)

I agree that all signs point toward Varys (and Aegon) being Blackfyres, which certainly casts an interesting light on Bran's mission. I mean, Bloodraven has to be House Blackfyre's version of the boogeyman: creepy sorcerer, Hand to Daemon Blackfyre's sworn enemy Dareon II, killer of Daemon's oldest two children, Bittersteel's sworn enemy, etc. And now we know he isn't dead.

I mean, presumably the reason Varys sent Ser Barristan to Dany instead of to Aegon is because Barristan famously killed Maelys Blackfyre on the Stepstones----he wouldn't have wanted Barristan anywhere near Maelys's nephew/cousin/whatever relation Aegon is. Right now Bloodraven can't leave his tree, but the Stark kids are breaking all the rules (warging cats and birds, eating human flesh in animal form, not to mention there are five living Stark skinchangers where only one in a thousand is supposed to have that gift). Who's to say Bran won't find a way to get Bloodraven out of his tree and past the Wall? Varys would freak if he knew his family's ancient enemy is alive (even though he's like a hundred and thirty years old), has a spy network Varys can't hope to compete with, and is just not in the mood for this bullshit.

[Tyrionthebest]

All this talk about Varys reminds me of a conversation between Jon and Selyse about the abandoned castles on the Wall:

I think GRRM is foreshadowing that Varys the Spider won't be in control now that winter has come. Cold kills spiders. (The Others supposedly use giant ice spiders that we haven't seen yet, but someone like Varys can't hope to stand against them anyway.)

I agree that all signs point toward Varys (and Aegon) being Blackfyres, which certainly casts an interesting light on Bran's mission. I mean, Bloodraven has to be House Blackfyre's version of the boogeyman: creepy sorcerer, Hand to Daemon Blackfyre's sworn enemy Dareon II, killer of Daemon's oldest two children, Bittersteel's sworn enemy, etc. And now we know he isn't dead.

I mean, presumably the reason Varys sent Ser Barristan to Dany instead of to Aegon is because Barristan famously killed Maelys Blackfyre on the Stepstones----he wouldn't have wanted Barristan anywhere near Maelys's nephew/cousin/whatever relation Aegon is. Right now Bloodraven can't leave his tree, but the Stark kids are breaking all the rules (warging cats and birds, eating human flesh in animal form, not to mention there are five living Stark skinchangers where only one in a thousand is supposed to have that gift). Who's to say Bran won't find a way to get Bloodraven out of his tree and past the Wall? Varys would freak if he knew his family's ancient enemy is alive (even though he's like a hundred and thirty years old), has a spy network Varys can't hope to compete with, and is just not in the mood for this bullshit.

If Bloodraven would get out of the tree he would be dead because the tree is the only thing that keeps him alive .

[Davos' Middle Finger]

Supposedly as a baby (ie when we know for sure he was the real thing) Aegon looked Targaryen like his dad. His sister Rhaenys looked Dornish like her mother.

[Tyrionthebest]

Supposedly as a baby (ie when we know for sure he was the real thing) Aegon looked Targaryen like his dad. His sister Rhaenys looked Dornish like her mother.

But the Dark Sister sword and Blackfyre existed way before they were born .

[SerArthurHeath]

I see Aegon a being Blackfyre. Simply because of his hair colour and eye colour.

Are Violet eyes and silver hair recessive?

Considering the possiblity of L + R = J then Valarian genes are recessive (Even the more doubtful N + A = J would make Valarian Violet eyes recessive, Jon has stark grey eyes, not Valarian violet or illiac). We all know blonde hair is recessive. (Roberts bastard Gendry, his mother had blonde hair.)

I would guess that means baby Aegon would of had Dornish features from Elia, hazel eyes and Brown/Black hair not typical Targ colours. Obviously as Aegon was "killed" as a child, everyone would of assumed he would be the typical Targ like Dany, Rhaegar and all Targ's past. Maybe why Tyrion believed him to be 'Aegon' and why Jon Con believed it aswell. If he looks like a Targ and his name is Aegon and he believes he is the son of Rhaegar, how can anyone say otherwise.

Considering the look at bastardry and the look at genetics (minus inbred physical deformities... just mental) in the story, I'm surprised no one has said as much. Aegon can't be "Aegon VI". He'd have the Dornish look. (If violet eyes and silver hair are recessive, which I'm guessing it is). His sister Rhaenys had the Dornish look, there'd be a 75% chance he'd have it too.

Therefore his mostly likely a Blackfyre or just a random boy from Lys or another free city.

I can see Illyrio being his father, consider he has yellow/blonde hair (The HBO series... forgot that.) and Serra has blond hair with silver streaks. Pretty good chance of him coming from their union. Now is Illyrio or Serra a Blackfyre through the female line? I could see that happening and I'd like it to be the case.

Whilst I am not convinced that Aegon is the real deal, he could definitely be the son of Elia and Rhaegar and look Targish. Elia had targ blood as do all the Martell's.

[bosdober]

And if he's really concerned about having a wise king, why not just off Cersei and let Kevan teach Tommen, or something like that? Seems like there's much easier ways to have a good king than putting a boy on the throne, one who Varys has maybe never even interacted with personally.

The bloodline is the key. Tommen is still a Lannister. He'll still have Cersei and Jaime's grandchildren, and Tywin's great grandchildren. Varys' desire is likely to see the proper bloodline restored to the throne, because he has faith in the genes.

[Ser Coffee The Bold]

What I don't understand about this theory is why Varys would have to lie in the first place if Aegon was a Blackfyre.

As Aegon Blackfyre, he has just as solid a claim on the throne as a Baratheon, and an even better one than a Lannister.

The only one who could stand in his was if she wanted to would be Dany, and a marriage would probably suit them both better than fighting one another.

Also, Varys tried to save Aerys from Tywin Lannister's host entering the city and betraying him. Why would he try to save him if he was a Blackfyre loyalist?

Pycelle was a Lannister loyalist, which is why he told Aerys to open the gates.

It seems completely feasible that if Varys knew the Lannisters had turned their clocks after Rheagar's death that he would have opportunity to hide his only known heir, Aegon.

It's not that I don't like the theory, it just seems like we are overcomplicating things here.