[ADwD Spoilers] Is Varys on Team Blackfyre?

[Manfryd Lothston]

Given the evidence, here's what I've got:

Varys is a Blackfyre who shaves his silver hair. He was not entirely truthful about his castration. He may have been cut for a magic spell like he said, but it was probably because somebody needed to harness the power of a king's dick. Varys is the end of the Blackfyre male-line.

Illyrio, the sellsword turned fishmonger, married Serra. Serra is Varys' sister. This is how Varys and Illyrio know each other.

Aegon is Illyrio and Serra's son, Varys' nephew and pretender to the Targaryen claim. Serra died birthing Aegon.

As for Dany and Viserys, well the dragon has three heads I am told. Varys marrying them to the Dornish would get the Dornish to raise their banners behind Aegon, who has the best claim supposedly.

Doesn't sound too crazy right?

I would buy that lock, stock and barrel.

I would also add that perhaps the "sorcerer" who cut Varys to use his king's blood/genitals to commune with an otherworldly power, actually received some prophecy or instruction regarding Varys. So far the Eunuch's scheming wasn't really for the "good of the realm", but did serve to engender division and chaos, playing into the hands of the Others.

[Mayura]

I am going to react here as this post will disappear less quickly than the "General forum" posts :)

I also think Varys is a Blackfyre or has, at least, a link with the Targaryen, and this for the reasons already stated.

IMO, it is also made clear by the way Illyrio and Varys are treating Daenerys and Viserys. Varys reveals in ADWD's epilogue that Aegon was raised to be king, hence giving away that they planned to put him on the IT from the very beginning. I was thinking: this thus means that Illyrio and Varys never intended for neither Viserys nor Daenerys to sit the IT. As it appears, the promises of Illyrio to help Viserys get an army to get his throne back were thus shallow, as Illyrio never intended for Viserys to sit the IT (Illyrio lied to him). Therefore, it seems Dany and Viserys were only "expendable bait", meant to attract the attention of the IT and of the Targ loyalists on the possibly returning Targ family.

Also, what I find strange if Aegon isn't a Blackfyre and is thus indeed Aegon Targaryen: Illyrio and Varys held Daenerys, Dany would have been the perfect bride for a returning Aegon Targaryen and to found the new Targ Dynasty. But instead, they married (sold) her off to a horselord barbarian and packed her away with Viserys.

To me, unless someone can tell me what was a real interest for marrying Dany to Drogo, this is an indirect clue that Illyrio and Varys are not working to restore the Targs on the IT but are rather trying to install Aegon, who is a Blackfyre: if they wanted to restore the Targs, it seems to me they would have preserved Dany until Aegon was of age and raised his banners, so she could be his bride (as we know, Targs like to marry withing the family, this is also why they were looking for a bride for Rhaegar in Essos). They would also not have packed Dany and Viserys away to an uncertain fate.

Also, about Varys being cut: indeed, he hasn't been cut at random, he has been bought on purpose by a sorcerer who needed his manly parts. But why Varys in particular? He was just a mummer. So it is likely that the sorcerer felt a drop of King's Blood in him and decided to use him for his spells. It is even possible it was also how Varys learned about his lineage and when he decided to live to get a sort of "revenge"... Who knows.

[Frey family reunion]

While I generally support the Aegon is a Blackfyre theory, I just think we should use caution in that assumption. I think he is certainly being passed off as a Blackfyre at least to the Golden Company. I have a theory that he is also being passed off as a Blackfyre to House Yronwood as well.

Doran says something to Arianne that makes me pause, however. When he talks to her about the Water Gardens, he remarks that when you look at the children at play in the pools you realize that they all look alike. That is, when the children aren't wearing their customary garments (i.e. clothing you would expect of nobles, vs clothing you would expect of servants, or peasants, ect) when they are not in their usual social settings, they are indistinguishable

I wonder if Aegon is not a version of "My fair lady". Where Varys and Illyrio have taken a child of lower birth that might be able to pass as Targaryen, and have taught him to be a noble.

In fact, perhaps the boy is an offshoot of a Targaryen, yet neither Rhaegar's child or a Blackfyre. What if he's perhaps the son of a whore who happens to be from a long line of whores who look like and are rumored to be descendants from a Targaryen King. For example from "House Black Pearl" the famous whore of Braavos, who is said to be from a female line descendned from one of Aegon IV's bastards?

Varys and Illyrio are now passing the child off to some people as Rhaegar's son, and to others as a Blackfyre.

One of the descriptions of Aegon, makes me pause as well. It is said that he has long lashes with a feminine quality to them. Could this be because he is from a line of women probably bred to maximize their feminine beauty?

[Mayura]

I think Aegon is, one way or another, linked to the Targs. He has many of the Targaryen/Blackfyre traits and he is described as a very very beautiful man, much like the way Rhaegar was described. I think the reference to his "long eyelashes" are just another way to underline the extreme beauty of Aegon.

It would be amazing if Aegon was "just" a nobody trained to be King. But his features seem to betray he has at least some Valyrian heritage. However, it is said in ADWD that Aegon has been trained for royalty, but,most importantly, he has lived his whole life as a commoner and is more likely to understand his people.

[Petyr Patter]

Maybe Aegon is actually descended from a Blackfyre and not Rhaegor. I don't think Martin will every explicitly reveal it one way or another. There is actually a decent amount of "lost heirs" appearing in history. Do a search for "False Dmitry" for one example. The thing is, without blood tests there is no way to really know. Sure, a family member can come forward and declare him one way or another, but that testimony itself is often highly suspect. I know one historian of Russian history who believe "False Dmitry I" really was Dmitry Ivanovich, son of Ivan the Terrible.

Or, lets put it another way. Does Aegon believe he really is Rhaegar's son? Does Jon Connington? If they believe it fully, they aren't going to slip up.

[vivatforx]

I think there are many well constructed points in this thread. The biggest clue to his Targ blood is the shaved head. Almost everyone we see do it is hiding something. I too think that Varys' castration could be a result of his king's blood. I also agree that the GC has been sold on the idea he is a Blackfyre.

However, I don't know that anyone here has mentioned the possibility that Ashara Dayne is wrapped up in this whole scheme. Her purple eyes have to be important at some point. Her death would make a whole lot more sense if it was over her baby being taken, or if someone told her the child died. And the timing is pretty solid.

Then, if you really want to shoot for the moon, I have heard rumblings that the Mad King might be the man who "dishonored" her at Harrenhal. If there was a baby from that union, it could very well be 18 years old, which is closer to the age Aegon would be than Tyrion's assessment in DwD.

I'm not saying it's a fact, but it should be included as a possibility. And it raises a fun question: Would the GC take up for a bastard Targ that wasn't of Aegon IV's brood?

[Ser Endipitous]

So I was re-reading A Game Of Thrones when I came across this seemingly innocuous little passage from a Catelyn chapter:

"And above it all, frowning down from Aegon’s high hill, was the Red Keep; seven huge drum-towers crowned with iron ramparts, an immense grim barbican, vaulted halls and covered bridges, barracks and dungeons and granaries, massive curtain walls studded with archers’ nests, all fashioned of pale red stone. Aegon the Conqueror had commanded it built. His son Maegor the Cruel had seen it completed. Afterward he had taken the heads of every stonemason, woodworker, and builder who had labored on it. Only the blood of the dragon would ever know the secrets of the fortress the Dragonlords had built, he vowed."

Could this be a hint that Varys is actually a Targaryen descendant, possibly even a Blackfyre?

[Alex Blackfyre]

he may be a blackfyre but remember that the golden company were waiting for Danaerys as well, and they fully knew she is a Targaryen, so they may want to support the Dragons Claim, also Illyrio said to Tyrion "Black or red, a dragon is still a dragon"

[Aaronomus]

N-N-N-NECROPOST

[ReRe]

what really confuses me here is that Varys and Illyrio seem to have spread themselves so thin.

They have TOO many aces, you know?

Was Varys behind the Dornish marriage pact with Viserys?

If he was, that means he was playing the Aegon angle, the Viserys/Dorne angle, the Viserys/Dany/Dothraki angle, and then, later, replacing the Viserys/Dorne angle with Dany and her dragons.

It seems to me that someone plotting to bring an old family back into power wouldn't have 3 or 4 different options for it all going on at the same time...because if more than one succeeds you're in deep shit.

Someone like Varys, a very smart person, would have set up his schemes to have them running in order, not simultaneously. As in, first try this, if that doesn't work, move on to next option, etc.

Hasn't Varys been "playing" everyone since the beginning? Doubt he's truly loyal to anyone. So, I must wonder what his real motives are.

[ReRe]

I see Aegon a being Blackfyre. Simply because of his hair colour and eye colour.

Are Violet eyes and silver hair recessive?

Considering the possiblity of L + R = J then Valarian genes are recessive (Even the more doubtful N + A = J would make Valarian Violet eyes recessive, Jon has stark grey eyes, not Valarian violet or illiac). We all know blonde hair is recessive. (Roberts bastard Gendry, his mother had blonde hair.)

I would guess that means baby Aegon would of had Dornish features from Elia, hazel eyes and Brown/Black hair not typical Targ colours. Obviously as Aegon was "killed" as a child, everyone would of assumed he would be the typical Targ like Dany, Rhaegar and all Targ's past. Maybe why Tyrion believed him to be 'Aegon' and why Jon Con believed it aswell. If he looks like a Targ and his name is Aegon and he believes he is the son of Rhaegar, how can anyone say otherwise.

Considering the look at bastardry and the look at genetics (minus inbred physical deformities... just mental) in the story, I'm surprised no one has said as much. Aegon can't be "Aegon VI". He'd have the Dornish look. (If violet eyes and silver hair are recessive, which I'm guessing it is). His sister Rhaenys had the Dornish look, there'd be a 75% chance he'd have it too.

Therefore his mostly likely a Blackfyre or just a random boy from Lys or another free city.

I can see Illyrio being his father, consider he has yellow/blonde hair (The HBO series... forgot that.) and Serra has blond hair with silver streaks. Pretty good chance of him coming from their union. Now is Illyrio or Serra a Blackfyre through the female line? I could see that happening and I'd like it to be the case.

Everyone tries to analyze the "silver hair/violet eyes" angle. I just don't get it. Dark features (skin, hair, eye color) usually dominate genetically. Robert's bastards all had dark hair, because he did. His "golden children," whose eyes were green and whose hair was blond, were an obvious genetic abnormality. Yes, light features can sometimes dominate, but it is rare. I am a blond woman with blue eyes. Both of my children have dark brown hair and brown eyes...because their father did. Similar situation with my sister's children. All brown haired and brown eyed.

[ReRe]

Yes Varys advised against opening the gates, likely to save his own skin because that would be a very dangerous spot for him. He seemed anti-Aerys but he probably did not want war so quickly - Rhaeghar and Lyanna and Aerys burning Rickard made things move out of Varys' control, much like with Littlefinger.

I believe you are talking about the vision with Rhaeghar.

Because it is an entertaining and satisfying death for a villain that needed to die, so that Egg could inherit.

I have seen speculation that the sorcerer who chopped off his balls was Marwyn and that seems quite possible.

Connington would have absolutely no way of knowing if the child was Rhaeghar's. Any child with Targ features and a comparable age would fool him.

Yes Varys advised against opening the gates, likely to save his own skin because that would be a very dangerous spot for him. He seemed anti-Aerys but he probably did not want war so quickly - Rhaeghar and Lyanna and Aerys burning Rickard made things move out of Varys' control, much like with Littlefinger.

I believe you are talking about the vision with Rhaeghar.

Because it is an entertaining and satisfying death for a villain that needed to die, so that Egg could inherit.

I have seen speculation that the sorcerer who chopped off his balls was Marwyn and that seems quite possible.

Connington would have absolutely no way of knowing if the child was Rhaeghar's. Any child with Targ features and a comparable age would fool him.

[paramount]

I doubt that since the Blackfyres are mostly extinct and it's Ageon he is raising the throne.

[paramount]

I doubt that since the Blackfyres are mostly extinct and it's Ageon he is raising the throne.

[UtherSnow]

Varys is an enigma.

He's shown he can change into a few incarnations. Gaoler when he visits Ned. Septon when he aids Tyrion's escape.

Could he have been a Faceless Man at one time? It also explains how Jaqen was in cells prior to being taken towards The Wall.

Mercy's chapter has Arya with some mummers. This parallels with Varys' own experiences.

Could be coincidences, I suppose.

Who has better knowledge of RK & KL than Varys? Taking Tyrion through another lower level of the dungeons (in total darkness), then into the system of 'hidden' passages, prompts a remark from Tyrion. (The 'little birds' reference.)

To have Varys POVs already would give too much away about him. His story is still to come, although we are learning little by little as we go along.

[Knight of the Teabags]

- My general problem with the Blackfyre-switch theories: are Varys and Illyrio such masterminds they can arrange roughly simultaneous pregnancies on two continents that result in children of the same sex? Or are they just really, really lucky.

The other answer to this is no they didn't arrange roughly simultaneous pregnancies or get really really lucky and 'Aegon' is younger than he is supposed to be. THIS is somewhat implied in the text when Tyrion thinks that Young Griff looks about sixteen, now those who are doing the maths of how long ago the Sack of KL was plus real Aegon (son of Rhaegar & Elia) being about a year old when he was supposed to have been killed would reckon him about eighteen had he lived.

Of course there are always eighteen year olds who look much younger, still it is one of the things that first makes you think about Young Griff being the Real Aegon and go 'hang on a moment!'