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[ADwD Spoilers]Daario Noharis


fuelpagan

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I think constantly bringing up his low birth has less to do with a secret heritage and more to do with GRRM illustrating how a Queen doesn't have the luxury of marrying for love.

On a, less than relevant, side note ... don't you think a capital 'Q' is much more aesthetically pleasing than its lowercase 'q' counterpart? In this digital age, letters just aren't as pleasing to look at I think.

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If young Griff is fake, and the dead baby at Kings Landing wasn't the real Aegon.... then who is Young Griff?

I suspect Illyrio's wife was a Blackfyre and Illyrio himself was a descendent of Aegor Rivers. I think he planned to swap his son with the true Aegon to steal Aegons claim to the throne as a kid.

How were Varys and Illyrio fooled into believing an imposter was Young Griff?

They aren't fooled. They are the ones doing it.

What you're basically saying here is that Varys conspired to switch baby Aegon with a fake baby, and then was conspired against in turn, having someone swap baby Aegon with a third fake without the knowledge of Varys or Illyrio.

Seriously?

Not exactly. I'm suggesting that Varys was in charge of swapping baby Aegon with a fake. Then Vary's sent baby Aegon to Tyrosh to be raised as an orphan.

Where are all these babies coming from with Targ-white hair?

Blackfyre's had the silver white hair as well as they are kin to the Targaryans.

The baby getting swapped once is reasonable. Twice is starting to sound crazy. When you consider that the second swap would have to be done by someone we don't know about yet, and the location/plan of the "real" Aegon would still not have been revealed, it becomes less and less likely that there's any chance this is true.

Bringing Aegon back from the dead once, killing Kevan Lannister and Maester Pycelle because of it, and then doing it all again? Really, really reaching.

I don't see any point in having a fake Aegon unless you can somehow prove it was fake. I doubt we will get a confession. I go back to how Stannis was planning on proving Joffrey wasn't really Robert's kid. By using one of Roberts other children that looks like Robert. Without a true Aegon being alive, having a fake one that can never be proven fake is pointless. Not like we can do genetic testing on the fake dragon.

So let me get this straight:

You're saying that the Blackfyres (via Varys and Illyrio) take Real Aegon away from KL, switching him with some common-born whelp (Dead Aegon).

Then once they have the Real Aegon in hand, they switch him AGAIN, with some Blackfyre descendant (Fake Aegon) and send Real Aegon presumably to Tyrosh where he grows up to be Daario.

The swap with the common welp was probably known by several people, the second swap would only be known only by Varys and Illyrio. I don't see Jon C raising a known fake Aegon. Jon C probably helped in some way with the first swap/rescue. The second swap took place while Jon C was faking his own death. Go away for a couple years, come back with the kid looking a little different. He tricked himself into thinking it was due to the child growing up.

It doesn't make sense. If they had the REAL Aegon in hand, why get rid of him? They could still restore power to Blackfyres via a REAL Aegon through supporting him.

That's my point in a way. If the Real Aegon is alive somewhere, GRRM would have introduced him to us in some way. I think that way is Daario.

Now, I'm not saying that Young Griff is not a Blackfyre, in fact I think that theory as expressed elsewhere on the boards is feasible.

There are only 2 realistic options for Aegon--

1. He died at KL and Young Griff is a Fake (Blackfyre or Otherwise)

2. He was spirited away from KL and really is Young Griff

I don't find it reasonable for the real Aegon to be spirited away, only to be shunted off somewhere and replaced with a Blackfyre. If they really wanted a Blackfyre to pretend to be Aegon, why spirit the real Aegon away in the first place? Just let him die in KL and then lie to everyone later, say that you saved him, and present your Blackfyre pretender.

It could be Varys was supposed to kill the real Aegon and chose to send him off to Tyrosh to be raised as an orphan thinking he was a nobody. Or it could be Daario thinks he is a Blackfyre and is hiding his identity. GRRM could go several ways in this detail.

No. Too old, and a gold tooth, no Targaryen would have a gold tooth.

If he thinks he's a Tyrosh orphan, he would follow the Tyrosh customs. If you have confirmation on his age please let me know and I would gladly concede.

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I've added the following to the opening post.

Supporting Evidence:

1. Dragons like Daario

2. Prophecy says Dany would only know 3 mounts. So far she has slept with Drogo, Daario and (Dammit can't recall his name).

Refuting Evidence:

1. Question on complexion of someone from Tyrosh compared to someone with Dornish background

2. It seems to many that Daario is too old, yet actual age is still unconfirmed.

There is also something about a blue flower, but I can't find it. Daario with his dyed blue hair and 3 pronged beard could looking like a blue flower.

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I don't see any point in having a fake Aegon unless you can somehow prove it was fake. I doubt we will get a confession. I go back to how Stannis was planning on proving Joffrey wasn't really Robert's kid. By using one of Roberts other children that looks like Robert. Without a true Aegon being alive, having a fake one that can never be proven fake is pointless. Not like we can do genetic testing on the fake dragon.

Perhaps the dragons will reveal him as a fake Targaryen when they encounter him and don't like him (alive anyway, perhaps they'd like him for lunch).

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Perhaps the dragons will reveal him as a fake Targaryen when they encounter him and don't like him (alive anyway, perhaps they'd like him for lunch).

Yet the Dragons like Daario. Why? Quentyn had dragon blood and they sure didn't like him. Daario must have more than just a "little" dragon blood as he claims.

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I suspect Illyrio's wife was a Blackfyre and Illyrio himself was a descendent of Aegor Rivers. I think he planned to swap his son with the true Aegon to steal Aegons claim to the throne as a kid.

Why do you suspect this?

Not exactly. I'm suggesting that Varys was in charge of swapping baby Aegon with a fake. Then Vary's sent baby Aegon to Tyrosh to be raised as an orphan.

I don't see any point in having a fake Aegon unless you can somehow prove it was fake. I doubt we will get a confession. I go back to how Stannis was planning on proving Joffrey wasn't really Robert's kid. By using one of Roberts other children that looks like Robert. Without a true Aegon being alive, having a fake one that can never be proven fake is pointless. Not like we can do genetic testing on the fake dragon.

Huh? Presumably Varys and Illyrio don't want anyone to prove that Young Griff is not Aegon.

That's my point in a way. If the Real Aegon is alive somewhere, GRRM would have introduced him to us in some way. I think that way is Daario.

This is utterly ridiculous. If the real Aegon is alive somewhere, GRMM has introduced him to us, as Young Griff. If Young Griff is not the real Aegon, then the real Aegon was murdered by Gregor Clegane in King's Landing.

It could be Varys was supposed to kill the real Aegon and chose to send him off to Tyrosh to be raised as an orphan thinking he was a nobody. Or it could be Daario thinks he is a Blackfyre and is hiding his identity. GRRM could go several ways in this detail.

Why would any of this be the case? Varys didn't need to kill the real Aegon. All he had to do to get the real Aegon out of the way was *nothing*.

There's just so many unwarranted assumption in this theory it's ridiculous. First, for absolutely no reason you assume both that 1) the real Aegon is alive; and 2) Young Griff is an impostor. All evidence in the book so far suggests that exactly one of those propositions is true. Second, you out of nowhere suggest Daario as the real Aegon, when all our descriptions of him suggest he is too old to be Aegon. Aegon is maybe two years older than Dany, at most. That is to say, Aegon is probably younger than Quentyn. And yet Daario repeatedly mocks Quentyn as a mere boy. Daario has a full beard - someone Aegon's age almost certainly would not. Daario is the commander of a sell-sword company. Although it is perhaps theoretically possible that a seventeen year old could command a sell-sword company, don't you think that would be a fact worthy of note - that Dany would comment on how young he seemed at some point in the course of her musings about him. Everything in the text points to Daario being considerably older than Dany, and certainly not an adolescent.

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That does not follow.

What doesn't follow is GRRM telling us the Dragons like Daario. Why bother telling us that if it wasn't important?

Why do you suspect this?

Tyrion 2, pg 78 - Beneath the gold, the bitter steel.

Followed by a paragraph how Tyrion finds it hard to believe the Golden Company would support the Targaryans when they were founded by the Blackfyres.

Also on the same page,

Some contracts are writ in ink, and some in blood.

The Golden Company broke their contract with Myr because of a blood contract.

Huh? Presumably Varys and Illyrio don't want anyone to prove that Young Griff is not Aegon.

Exactly. but Varys also has a soft spot for kids. He may not have gone along with any plan that involved killing the true Aegon.

This is utterly ridiculous. If the real Aegon is alive somewhere, GRMM has introduced him to us, as Young Griff. If Young Griff is not the real Aegon, then the real Aegon was murdered by Gregor Clegane in King's Landing.

If he was killed in King's Landing, why bother with Kevan suspecting the boy in the cloak may not have been Rhaegars.

Why would any of this be the case? Varys didn't need to kill the real Aegon. All he had to do to get the real Aegon out of the way was *nothing*.

There's just so many unwarranted assumption in this theory it's ridiculous. First, for absolutely no reason you assume both that 1) the real Aegon is alive; and 2) Young Griff is an impostor. All evidence in the book so far suggests that exactly one of those propositions is true. Second, you out of nowhere suggest Daario as the real Aegon, when all our descriptions of him suggest he is too old to be Aegon. Aegon is maybe two years older than Dany, at most. That is to say, Aegon is probably younger than Quentyn. And yet Daario repeatedly mocks Quentyn as a mere boy. Daario has a full beard - someone Aegon's age almost certainly would not. Daario is the commander of a sell-sword company. Although it is perhaps theoretically possible that a seventeen year old could command a sell-sword company, don't you think that would be a fact worthy of note - that Dany would comment on how young he seemed at some point in the course of her musings about him. Everything in the text points to Daario being considerably older than Dany, and certainly not an adolescent.

For starters, no author is going to spell out every clue up front. They hide behind misdirection and unreliable narrative to confuse the reader. But they still have to lay enough clues so the reveal isn't completely out of nowhere. Just as the house of the undying had some thinking Aegon may be alive, but nothing to "prove" it true. Now tada, Aegon is revealed to have survived. Do I make assumptions? yes. Are they completely unwarrented and for absolutely no reason? No

Here is my rough logic. I'm not going to layout every piece of proof of evidence for you.

Assumptions:

1. From Tyrion 2, Illyrio is playing the Game of Thrones for reasons more than he claims.

2. Jon Connington was a trusted friend of Rhaegar's.

3. Illyrio and Varys both know who the boy really is

4. Varys doesn't like harming kids

5. If Aegon is alive, GRRM would have introduced us to him.

Now it seems you are ok with the theory the Young Griff is fake. That is being debated elsewhere.

If Young Griff if fake, Varys knows it.

Jon Conningting must somehow believe Young Griff is truly Aegon, so he probably was part of the actual rescue.

Varys doesn't like harming kids, therefore he would push to keep the true Aegon alive.

If true Aegon is alive and he isn't Young Griff, GRRM would have introduced him before now.

So I ask myself, who could it be? My best guesses are Darkstar and Daario. Daario fits the best.

Does this prove anything. Nope. Simply speculation. But its not unwarranted.

The age of Daario has been vague. Whether or not he is truly Aegon, I would suspect he has had a harder life the Quentyn. Those experiences would make him view someone like Quentyn as a boy even if they were the same age.

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Can you cite a passage where it is stated that Daario Noharis is liked by Dany's Dragons. My only recollection is Brown Ben Plumm, the captain of The Second Sons, being liked by the dragons. This is brought up multiple times, both in ADwD and ASoS.

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