Jeejee Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Brienne's no actress. Do you think Jaime's faith in her trustworthiness will be enough to offset any suspicion he might feel? I can't imagine him walking right into a trap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theepajaro Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 I don't think Brienne and Jaime will try to find the Hound because she knows that the Hound is dead and it is an imposter who is wearing his helmet.I also think that she'll tell Jaime what is going on, unless she has Lady Stoneheart waiting for them outside to make sure she follows through with her part of the deal. If not I would not be surprise if in the next book Jaime and Brienne go off to find Sansa. Where they steal Sansa a way from LF. Sansa redeems undead Cat and then is protected by the Sansa Guard until Dany invades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghent Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 I honestly think with Brienne, she's naive enough to think that UnCat will hear out Jamie so she know's he's trying to uphold his oath to her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matarreyes Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Why do all people think that Brienne is taking Jaime to UnCat? She was required to kill him, not to drag him back. Brienne is no good at telling lies. Jaime will be logically suspicious to follow her alone into the wilderness. The best chance Brienne has to obey UnCat is to lure him 5 miles away from his camp and stick a knife between his shoulderblades, then brng head to UnCat. Not very knightly thing to do, but may even be better than dragging him unawares to an enemy camp to be hanged. I think that she will try to off him herself, maybe even explaining why she is doing it, since it's a somewhat nobler route. So we will start with a Jaime/Brienne fight number 2 (come on, you all know you want it). I am also pretty positive that Jaime can hold his own in a swordfight by now. He holds his own for hours against Payne in AFFC , even if he still looses every time. He might need an encouragement in the form of a death threat to keep improving. So, after they fight it out to a draw again, they finally talk and agree to go look for Sansa as the best way to save their respective honors. Sansa Stark is about to be married in the Vale when Jaime appears and reminds her future husband that she is actually Sansa Lannister, already married to he Imp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fearsome Fred Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 I'm starting to become more and more assured that Jaime, Sandor, and Robert Strong (i.e., Gregor) will all converge in the Vale, per Bran's dream. Sandor is no longer "the Hound". His helmet has passed on. Nor is he in the process of becoming a "shadow" (a minion of R'llor, the lord of Shadow, or some other dark thing).Un-Brienne will be the shadow "with the terrible face of a Hound". She will take up the Helmet and be mistaken for Sandor.- same height as Sandor, with broad shoulders.- Not as bulky as Sandor was, but Sandor's illness will explain his weight loss.- equivalent fighting skills- also has half a face- appears to be the same age as Sandor (since her undeath makes her look ten years older).- if undeath fades her blue eyes, they will be mistaken for Sandor's grey. - was last seen in the vicinity of the Hound's helmet; is next seen telling false stories about the Hound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexia Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 - same height as Sandor, with broad shoulders.Brienne is shorter than Sandor and Sandor is one of the best swordsmen in the realm with a reputation as a stone cold killer. No way is Brienne remotely comparable, she is competent but not legendary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fearsome Fred Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Brienne is shorter than Sandor and Sandor is one of the best swordsmen in the realm with a reputation as a stone cold killer. No way is Brienne remotely comparable, she is competent but not legendary.Brienne is "maybe a bit shorter than Sandor". http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/1147/Apart from the fact that "maybe" demonstrates uncertainty on the point, the difference is apparently minimal. Such a difference could be readily overlooked by an observer, or readily corrected with the right shoes.Her skills are clearly top notch, or she would not have received a position in Renly's "Rainbow Guard." Whether she could (prior to her undeath) have beaten Sandor in a fair fight is not particularly relevant to her ability to convincingly impersonate him in most contexts. And while she may not have been an utterly ruthless "stone cold killer", undeath may change that (see Catelyn). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matarreyes Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Again, why do people think she is undead? Her appearance is easily accounted for thanks to the bite on her face and her other injuries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j52y Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 I don't think that Jaime is dead. If he were going to die from Brienne, I think he would've died in A Dance with Dragons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fearsome Fred Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Again, why do people think she is undead? Her appearance is easily accounted for thanks to the bite on her face and her other injuries- Brienne's bite does not explain her aged appearance. All Jaime saw of her bite was the bandage covering it.- We know Catelyn's undead status can be passed on via the "kiss of fire".- Catelyn is too obviously undead to be a truly effective agent of evil.- When we next see Brienne, following her ambigous death scene, it is not as a POV character. (see Catelyn).- Bran's prophesy of the Hound Shadow, together with the foreshadowing of the significance of the Hound's helmet, implies an undead version of the Hound will emerge. Brienne is, for various reasons, the best candidate for this post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Grifter Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 BwB don't do trial by combat so nix that idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fearsome Fred Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 I don't think that Jaime is dead. If he were going to die from Brienne, I think he would've died in A Dance with Dragons.Maybe he DID die in A Dance with Dragons. Offscreen.Whatever has happened with Jaime has occurred off-screen. He has been gone long enough for his disappearance to be noted in King's Landing.My guess is Jaime and "the Hound" will eventually reappear. But Jaime will no longer be a POV character. He will be undead, one of Rh'llor's minions. He will be the "shadow" with armor like the sun, from Bran's dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeromus Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 - Brienne's bite does not explain her aged appearance.Well, she has been waiting since 2005 for George to write about her again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matarreyes Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 - Brienne's bite does not explain her aged appearance. All Jaime saw of her bite was the bandage covering it.- Bran's prophesy of the Hound Shadow, together with the foreshadowing of the significance of the Hound's helmet, implies an undead version of the Hound will emerge. Brienne is, for various reasons, the best candidate for this post.Saying that a character has aged 10 years is an expression GRRM has used many times already to indicate that a person is not healthy. Jaime has thought about Lancel in those terms in AFFC, and people speculated he was poisoned by Cersei and what not. All Jaime notices is hat she is unwell. Because she is unwell. Sometimes a description has no furher meaning. There is no such thing as a 'Bran's prophesy of the Hound Shadow'. What is going on is a forceful trying up of ends that do not belong together. The dream people are suddenly remembering is only a dream, it has not been treated as a prophesy in the books (prophesies are usually repeated throughout the books, and are described in a different manner). There usually are several of them together, whereas in Bran's dream in AGOT we see the Hound scene you think hasn't happened yet together with what are clearly scenes from AGOT (Jon,Cat) that are happening while Bran is dreaming. IMO, the Hound scene was meant to illustrate Stark's enemies while in KL in AGOT: the Lannisters symbolized by Jaime whom Bran subconsciously feared and the worst of their retainers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamthedave Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Well, she has been waiting since 2005 for George to write about her again...:D :D :D :D :D :DI doubt this plotline will kill Jaime off. Isn't there some prophecy heavily hinting that he's going to kill Cersei?I also find it highly unlikely that Brienne is dead. If she's been killed and resurrected, that means Pod and the other guy are dead, too, so why would she do what she's told? We've seen no evidence whatsoever that people brought back via the kiss lose their personality. Cat and Beric both went on trying to do what they did before. Beric was still an honourable knight trying to bring justice to Gregor, Cat came back full of hate and thoughts of revenge, perfectly sensible given what had just happened. If Cat murdered Pod and Hyle, no way would Brienne agree to bring Jaime back. So I imagine all three are alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexia Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 There is no such thing as a 'Bran's prophesy of the Hound Shadow'. What is going on is a forceful trying up of ends that do not belong together. The dream people are suddenly remembering is only a dream, it has not been treated as a prophesy in the books (prophesies are usually repeated throughout the books, and are described in a different manner). There usually are several of them together, whereas in Bran's dream in AGOT we see the Hound scene you think hasn't happened yet together with what are clearly scenes from AGOT (Jon,Cat) that are happening while Bran is dreaming. IMO, the Hound scene was meant to illustrate Stark's enemies while in KL in AGOT: the Lannisters symbolized by Jaime whom Bran subconsciously feared and the worst of their retainers.Remember the man in stone armor who lifted his helm and there was nothing but thick black blood inside? It sounds fairly prophetic to me...BTW, the idea that Sandor will end up undead seems fairly laughable to me. It seems to imply that the Hound would have an impact on Arya and Sansa, which he has. And the idea that Brienne has been zombie-fied is even funnier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolourous UndEdd Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 - Brienne's bite does not explain her aged appearance. All Jaime saw of her bite was the bandage covering it.Yes it does, she was severely wounded, she nearly died. Such things do take their toll. Theon isn't undead either, but is still mistaken for an old man on several occasion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Lord of Winterfell Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Couldn't Brienne still sort of stick to the spirit of her oath by helping Jaime find Sansa, and then attempting to kill him? Jaime went off voluntarily with Brienne, and it seems the most likely explanation for him going off with her voluntarily is that she is going to help him fulfill his oath to Catelyn.Jaime knows that LF is at the Eyrie, and he knows that the Eyrie is the only place where Sansa has any family left. It's a logical place to look.George has said Marillion has a part to play, which suggests he's going to say what really happened to Lysa. So to whom is he going to tell that story?I'm betting on a Brienne, Jaime, and perhaps Sandor party going to the Vale, finding out the Truth, and confronting LF. That seems far more likely than just a boring return to unCat, and certainly would advance the plot more.But I do like the Brienne as new Hound theory as well, especially given that both of them have had one side of their face ruined. Nice symmetry there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alguien Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Remember the man in stone armor who lifted his helm and there was nothing but thick black blood inside? It sounds fairly prophetic to me...That was Gregor, right? And we know the dream was magical. It was sent to him by Bloodraven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexia Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 George has said Marillion has a part to play, which suggests he's going to say what really happened to Lysa. So to whom is he going to tell that story?Huh? Link please, Marrillion is dead according to the books. That was Gregor, right? That's the running theory...I'm guessing it to be Ser Robert Strong, the dead man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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