Stallion That Mounts Texas Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 It is widely believed that Dorne can field 50,000 spears. In AFFC Doran tells Arianne that Dorne is the least populous of the seven kingdoms, that they let their enemies believe them to be stronger than they are and that they cannot win a war against the Iron Throne alone. From this it seems that maybe they cannot muster that many troops. However, Quentyn offers Dany 50,000 spears in his marriage proposal. Its not likely that he would lie about this. Also, John Connington views a Dornish alliance as the key to Aegon's hopes. He states that only the Dornish have significant enough strength to threaten the Lannister/Tyrell alliance. Kevan also admits that a golden company/Dorne alliance would be bad news.What is Dorne's true strength in numbers? How good are they militarily even if their numbers are smaller? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta1212 Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Dorne's true strength lies in the fact that they are secretly not left-handed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JalenTigh Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Maybe each soldier carries 2 or 3 spears? lol... I dunno, Ive wondered this too. It did not make sense to me that they could field 50K when all Robb could field at the start of the war was less then 20K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kungtotte Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Maybe each soldier carries 2 or 3 spears? lol... I dunno, Ive wondered this too. It did not make sense to me that they could field 50K when all Robb could field at the start of the war was less then 20K.The North is very sparsely populated, and also it's as large as all of the other six kingdoms combined so even if they did boast a similar population it would take that much longer for them to gather.50K might be an exaggeration, but it's not difficult to imagine how Dorne can muster more men than the North. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
you wouldn't know me Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Although the North despite being bigger is more sparsely populated so that could be a reason, but that still seems like a big difference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
you wouldn't know me Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 The North is very sparsely populated, and also it's as large as all of the other six kingdoms combined so even if they did boast a similar population it would take that much longer for them to gather.50K might be an exaggeration, but it's not difficult to imagine how Dorne can muster more men than the North.Though it just shows how badass the north was that despite being severely outnumbered they managed to win every battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kungtotte Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Every northman is worth ten o' them southerners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beagle_alarm_clock Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Fielding 50,000 spears doesn't mean they have a 50,000 man standing army. Like the National Guard they have citizens who have training that usually go about other things for their livelihood. In a war they can gear up, though the displacement of manpower would negatively impact their economy and agriculture and farming, etc. Likely the impact is much more severe than other areas because of the smaller population. They are better on the defensive because their terrain is inhospitable and they are close to their supply hubs. Much like the North. Dornish armies afield on conquest... not nearly so formidable. These are problems for all armies and their supporting cultures, but Dorne suffers more than the Lannisters and their vast supply of wealth or Highgarden with wealth and food and people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Doran certainly knows the real strength of Dorne much better than Quentyn, so i trust him on that. Besides, exaggerating Dorne's numbers can help Quentyn secure the marriage with Dany, so he may've been lying intentionally. It's not like Dany can say later "But there are actually only 30 000 Dornish spears, I am getting a divorce ASAP". ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrainFireBob Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Kevan's remark is also a reflection of how devastated the Lannisters were by the war of five kings. They fought the North and Riverlands, and suffered devastating casualties, whereas their win by assassination leaves a fair amount of northern/riverland strength intact. The Vale stayed out of it, and likely will continue to do so. The Lannisters also clashed with the Stormlands, which also took a bit of a beating. Net result: Lannisters decimated, North/Riverlands leaderless, Vale intact (but not one of the most populous to begin with), Dorne intact, Stormlands battered, Reach fighting on two fronts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bella Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Dorne seems to be more about equality than the others - do you think some of these spears are women (and thus bumping up the numbers)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stallion That Mounts Texas Posted July 23, 2011 Author Share Posted July 23, 2011 Dorne seems to be more about equality than the others - do you think some of these spears are women (and thus bumping up the numbers)?That was my guess as well. Judging from Arianne and the sand snakes, Dorne is martial culture in which men and women learn the art of war. This would also help to explain how they can field so many troops.We know that Doran has two host already assembled. One in the Prince's Pass and the other on the Boneway (under Lord Yronwood). I have tried to put the numbers on each host. 15k-20k perhaps.Anyway, I love Dorne and want it to have vengeance more than any other house except the Starks. Whether they join Danny or Aegon, I can't wait until they pour out of Dorne shooting arrows and throwing spears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaostics Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Well how many people are fielded by the Tyrells of Highgarden and the Reach? I think they have maybe 35000 and they can field more spears with sellswords and others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JalenTigh Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Well how many people are fielded by the Tyrells of Highgarden and the Reach? I think they have maybe 35000 and they can field more spears with sellswords and others.Between the Tyrells and the Storm Lords, Renly gathered 100K .. I would imagine most of those were Tyrell, hence the Margie marriage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stallion That Mounts Texas Posted July 23, 2011 Author Share Posted July 23, 2011 Between the Tyrells and the Storm Lords, Renly gathered 100K .. I would imagine most of those were Tyrell, hence the Margie marriage.Agreed. Mace Tyrell and Randyll Tarly both brought armies to Kingslanding. I'm pretty sure these are chiefly Tyrell men. The Reach also has enough men to fight the Ironmen on another front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 I view that number as an absolute total.So if Doran calls his banners, for an urgent need, then I doubt that more than 10,000 will show up. This would include all the lords with their retainers and sworn swords. So basically the more professional soldiers. The other 40,000 would be levies, which would take time to recruit, but they are there for recruitment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of War Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 As if it matters hoe many men Dorne has, odds are when they gather, the brilliant leaders of Dorne will once again do something idiotic, stab themselves in the foot, and lose the entire army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Connington's Return Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 So here's what I can gather from the text:North- Robb's army is 20k. However, this is not nearly indicative of how many men could fight in the North; only how many were called/brought. We know the Umbers still have men, the Manderlys, the Hill Clans, the Karstarks, etc. because of Dance. Howland Reed, as far as I know, didn't contribute any men to Robb's standing army either, and Lady Dustin held back most of her men (giving only as much to avert the wroth of Winterfell). The North is wild and dangerous and it makes sense that more men need to stay to help.Riverlands- already in disarray when Robb marches down. Many houses were destroyed or brought low during Robert's Rebellion, since not all the Tully bannermen were loyal to Hoster Tully and many stayed on the side of Aerys. The Riverlands strength is already depleted, although the Brackens, Blackwoods, Mallisters, and Freys seem to be untouched at the outset. I would estimate around 50 to 60k men before Gregor starts torching/pillaging his way through and defeating small bands of individual lords' armies.Vale- unknown, but with a number of powerful houses of which the main one is Royce. Probably in the vicinity of 70k men.West- Lannisters gathered two armies, Jamie's and Tywin's, which combined I think were between 30 and 40k men. The Lannister uncle that was killed also raised 20k men, although they were green boys and old men.Reach- Tyrells and bannermen made up most of Renly's 80 to 100k army, so probably about 60k men. The remaining were Storm Lords.Stormlands- around 30k on Renly's side and probably another 30k on Stannis's side.You have to remember, these figures are just armies that have been conscripted already. There is no way that they include all fighting men of age in the respective kingdoms, since some need to stay behind as garrisons/for the harvest/etc. Since presumably every man in the Riverlands has fought, that figure includes everyone. The Vale also includes everyone since they haven't raised any army at all.Therefore, the claim that Dorne has 50k spears makes sense, assuming that is counting every able man. Dorne also seems to have developed a ton of individual badasses like Oberyn, Lewyn, Arthur Dayne, Yronwood, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Steel Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Someone claimed in ACOK that Dorne had 50k men as well. I forgot who it was -- I think it might have been a Tyrion chapter. The 50k probably includes green boys and old men though.The North was so vast that it would take months to gather all of its strength. Like Russia in World War I, where they had to spend at least 3 months shipping troops to the front lines via train, which was one of the main reasons that there was no turning back from war once their forces mobilized.The North most likely only brought half of its fighting men south. They could have raised an additional army of green boys and old men as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Italian Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Probably the main advantage of Dorne at this point is that it's the only kingdom (along with the Vale) that hasn't been damaged by war.In addition, because of his position, perhaps Dorne can produce food supplies even during winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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