Andhaira Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 It's pretty obvious that the perfumed senschal turned out to be Reznak. We have Barristan actually calling him the perfumed senschal in his chapters. So basically, this mystery is solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breedy Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 The sentence structure makes things a little more interesting.Here is a break down"Kraken and dark flame" appear to be an obvious reference to Victorian and his dark skinned red priest.Then we have a comma and"Lion and Griffin" a reference to Tyrion and Aegon (young GRIFF) who traveled together as well.Then we have another comma and..."The Sun's son and the mummer's dragon" a reference to Doran and ..........Discuss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey Takes The Crown Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 I'm thinking it means Moqorro. Wasn't he on the Stinky Steward with Tyrion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gogorath Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 The sentence structure makes things a little more interesting.Here is a break down"Kraken and dark flame" appear to be an obvious reference to Victorian and his dark skinned red priest.Then we have a comma and"Lion and Griffin" a reference to Tyrion and Aegon (young GRIFF) who traveled together as well.Then we have another comma and..."The Sun's son and the mummer's dragon" a reference to Doran and ..........Discuss"The Sun's son and the mummer's dragon" - most likely a reference to Quentyn and Aegon. The first Griffin would more likely be Connington to me, whose sigil is actually a Griffin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiffySilpion Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Wait, wait, wait! I'm confused now. I thought Varys was working to restore the Targaryens to the throne--why would he oppose Dany? I can't imagine she wouldn't join Aegon's forces once she gets to Westeros when she learns about him. Why would Varys want to get rid of her and her dragons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Wait, wait, wait! I'm confused now. I thought Varys was working to restore the Targaryens to the throne--why would he oppose Dany? I can't imagine she wouldn't join Aegon's forces once she gets to Westeros when she learns about him. Why would Varys want to get rid of her and her dragons? Get rid of her, yes, but not necessarily the dragons. There has been a lot of speculation that he and Illyrio are Blackfyres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sand Viper Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Why do people think that the Perfumed Seneschal is somebody Dany had already met? After all, she didn't meet anybody else in that prophecy other than the sun's son...And for it to be a ship? - so now Quaithe is setting Dany convuluted riddles whereby she has to gather detailed information about every person and object before she can work out what she has to be wary of...It's actually pretty obvious that the Perfumed Seneschal is Garth the Gross, Seneschal of Oldtown. Quaithe was just tactfully trying to warn Dany that she should avoid standing downwind of him if she ever comes across him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Song Of Vice And Ire Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 If you have a ship called 'Perfumed Seneschal', make its name a riddle and talk loudly about a seneschal with a lot of perfume then it is incredibly stupid for the prophecy not to refer to the ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pow Posted July 27, 2011 Author Share Posted July 27, 2011 Why do people think that the Perfumed Seneschal is somebody Dany had already met? After all, she didn't meet anybody else in that prophecy other than the sun's son...And for it to be a ship? - so now Quaithe is setting Dany convuluted riddles whereby she has to gather detailed information about every person and object before she can work out what she has to be wary of...It's actually pretty obvious that the Perfumed Seneschal is Garth the Gross, Seneschal of Oldtown. Quaithe was just tactfully trying to warn Dany that she should avoid standing downwind of him if she ever comes across him...I agree, I was not sure which Maester it was but he fits the bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breedy Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 "The Sun's son and the mummer's dragon" - most likely a reference to Quentyn and Aegon. The first Griffin would more likely be Connington to me, whose sigil is actually a Griffin.That's the purpose of riddles, some time the answer is obvious other times its not. In your example as well as mine the people featured in the first two lines have had physical contact. I can't recall Qeutyn and Aegon meeting now one is dead and the other is in Westroso Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blue Bard Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 I'm ashamed that only know has the "dark flame" of the prophecy made me think of Blackfyre. If that is the case, I think we now know what young Griff's real identity is. Personally I think the Meereenese guy with the unpronounceable name is intended to be an obvious red herring, the ship is to catch out readers who thought "Ah-ha" when the name is translated leaving Varys as the perfumed seneschal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Griffin Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 I have to wonder if Reznak mo Reznak as the perfumed seneschal of the prophecy isn't a bit on the nose. It seems like every time he's referred to after that, one or both of those terms is conspicuous.I still think it's the ship, or more properly who the ship was carrying. But that's just instinct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auska Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 I still think Perfumed Seneschal may be the ship. In another thread somebody mentioned the pickled corpse transported on Selaesori Qhoran may be a victim of grey plague. Is so, the warning makes a lot of sense. Of course, the ship didn't get to Meereen, but we already know Quaithe's prophecies are fallible.I'd wager on the ship too. “Fragrant Seneschal” is just too dumb a name for a ship otherwise…I really, really can't get on board with this grey plague enthusiasm, though. I'm assuming the warning refers to either Moqorro, Tyrion or Mormont. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignatius Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 I'd wager on the ship too. “Fragrant Seneschal” is just too dumb a name for a ship otherwise…I really, really can't get on board with this grey plague enthusiasm, though. I'm assuming the warning refers to either Moqorro, Tyrion or Mormont.Masking the Perfumed Seneschal as the Stinky Steward was enough to throw me off, although GRRM seems to appeal to a more observant crowd. The obvious attempts at misdirection (towards Reznak, the ship and away from Varys) are to provide ample fan fodder whilst Varys plays his little games. Who is to say he doesn't have agents in Mereen? Perhaps poisoning people?The actual effect this prophecy has is building distrust towards everyone around her, which is a pretty healthy outlook for a queen, all things considered. 'Remember the Undying' can be loosely translated to: 'go forward and beware of everything, especially your advisors.' In this case all of the seneschals (and people aboard them) are worthy of distrust which is not the worst of ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSP Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 I will point out that we know nothing of Quathe or her motives and agenda. All the people she hints about in her prophecy could be people not to be trusted, as she insinuates. Alternatively, she could be poisoning Daenerys' trust of any proferred help from Westeros and elsewhere so that she comes to put her trust only in Quathe or for some other agenda that remains unclear at the moment.It seems to me that the Perfumed Senchenal won't be Reznak, primarily for the reason that Daenerys, the receiver of the prophetic riddle, all but assumes that's who is referenced. GRRM likes to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melicorn Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 I'm not really sure on how long sea travel is taking and if this would work out in the book's timeline, but would it be possible for Victarion to capture the Stinky Steward and add it to his fleet? The only major damage I remember it receiving was a shattered mast, which, while making it unsailable, is a fixable problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcuWill Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 I don't think Varys is working for Dany at all. Remember, that was Illio (sp?) that has been jumping around helping every Targaryan, Aegon, and Dany and her brother before her.Especially considering the discussion that Varys had with Kevan with regard to whom should be the proper king, Dany does not fit into his description in any fashion. So when Varys and Dany finally interact (whether directly or indirectly) it seems to me that she has a lot to fear.Also, can someone explain the whole Blackfyre/Aegon/Varys thing to me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 'Beware the perfumed Seneschal' would be a most stupid warning if it would refer to Varys, a guy who is half a world a way and is already considered by Daenerys to be an enemy. After all, she does not know that he works with Illyrio, so why the hell should she be cautious of him, exactly? She would execute him, if he would be as stupid to appear before without Illyrio vouching for him way before. And that would only happen when she arrives in Westeros, not at her court in Meereen.All the other prophecies - and they are not prophecies, as I sees it, only information by Quaithe, acquired through the glass candle, about the people who are on their way to Daenerys right now - refer to people on their way to Daenerys, or about somebody already close to her.If the Senschal is not the ship, it's Rezak. Since Dany did not act against him and considered this to be too easy, the guy got off easily. But, well, if he actually is a traitor, he could continue his betrayals and plots. And if he was the guy who tried to poison her, she was saved by mere luck... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack merridew Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 I think its apparent that Varys is working for Aegon, so i would think he views Dany as a threat, so while he might make way for her and use her dragons in the war for the dawn when it comes time to rule i think he will favor aegon and not the mother of dragons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duskfire Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 I think its apparent that Varys is working for Aegon, so i would think he views Dany as a threat, so while he might make way for her and use her dragons in the war for the dawn when it comes time to rule i think he will favor aegon and not the mother of dragonsreally?Him and Illyrio are basically bum buddies, and Illyrio has done everything in his power to help Dany. The original intention is the same; to marry Dany and Aegon. I doubt Varys sees Dany as a threat anymore then he sees Tyrion as a threat. They are just tools to aid him in his quest for whatever it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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