[Andhaira]

Restless, on Sep 25 2008, 07.46, said:

yep, thats a riddle.
So "To go north, you must go south." means she must go north and then will go south and conquesr Westeros :)

No, she will die (horribly) while fighting the Others, be reanimated as the Ice Queen (offscreen)

The epilogue of the last book will feature Jorah Mormont as the LC in his final years (80 +yrs of age) as he heads out north of the wall for one last ranging. He will meet the ice queen, and finally bed her....

The End?? :wideeyed:

[TimTheEnchanter]

I think it's quite possible that the "pale mare" symbolizes Aurane Waters.. the sigil of the Velaryons is a silvery seahorse . And the Velaryons are also of valyrian descent and quite often they married among each other so there would be a strong relation between the two houses.

[Besselfunction]

Thats probably one of the better explanations for "pale mare" that I've encountered so far! One thing that doesnt fit though is that the prophecy states "first comes the pale mare", which can hardly be true if its Aurane Waters (who leaves KL at the end of AFFC and thereby would arrive in Meereen late in ADWD). It doesnt entirely rule out that possibilty, though - perhaps all the suitors arrive rather late and of those Aurane is the first.

[TimTheEnchanter]

Besselfunction, on Sep 29 2008, 13.53, said:

Thats probably one of the better explanations for "pale mare" that I've encountered so far! One thing that doesnt fit though is that the prophecy states "first comes the pale mare", which can hardly be true if its Aurane Waters (who leaves KL at the end of AFFC and thereby would arrive in Meereen late in ADWD). It doesnt entirely rule out that possibilty, though - perhaps all the suitors arrive rather late and of those Aurane is the first.

Ah, you're right about that. Given the fact that ADwD will run simultaneously with AFfC it seems hard to realize for Aurane and his fleet to arrive first. Otherwise, i have absolutely no idea how long it would take to cross the distance on a ship neither i know if the other visitors will have a straight, smooth way. Maybe they all get in trouble on their way, so there will be a great delay for all visitors, especially tor those wo travel on land ...

[sholtzma]

This may be completely irrelevant but I thought I would share. In doing some readings for my Black Death class, I read some reference in one of the readings to the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse. The fourth horse is specifically described as "pale" (the others are various colors) and some think that the term "pale" refers to a shade of green, representing decomposition, and specifically represents Death.

I don't know that the term "pale mare" is in any way connected with the Four Horsemen, but I always thought since reading this spoiler that it was a unique term, and probably had some meaning beyond what we could see right now. It will be interesting to see what it really refers to in the coming books of the series.

[Other-in-Law]

TimTheEnchanter, on Sep 29 2008, 12.10, said:

I think it's quite possible that the "pale mare" symbolizes Aurane Waters.. the sigil of the Velaryons is a silvery seahorse . And the Velaryons are also of valyrian descent and quite often they married among each other so there would be a strong relation between the two houses.

Ha! That's an old crackpot theory of mine, pivoting on the fact that male seahorses bear their young to explain away why Aurane would be a "mare" instead of a "stallion".

[sholtzma]

But male seahorses make sperm. They are absolutely male, as a stallion would be a male. A mare makes eggs. This seems like a stretch.

[Jurble]

So what's the consensus is Mummer's Dragon Aurane Waters, or the head of the Golden Company, or someone else?

This post has been edited by Jurble: 16 August 2009 - 07:25 PM

[Ran]

My own theory is that it's Young Griff.

[Jurble]

Where's all this Young Griff mania coming from? I see he's mentioned like one line in the Tyrion 2 spoiler thread, or did i miss him somewhere else? What's the proof he's either Aegon or a false Aegon? (is Griff = Jon Connington based just on the name Griff or something else?)

[Ran]

It's just from that Tyrion chapter, and some details regarding Illyrio wanting to give him something (generally assumed to be a Valyrian steel sword, perhaps Dark Sister or even Blackfyre). Griff is widely believed to be Jon Connington, yes.

[Mezeh]

Jurble, on Aug 19 2009, 03.15, said:

Where's all this Young Griff mania coming from? I see he's mentioned like one line in the Tyrion 2 spoiler thread, or did i miss him somewhere else? What's the proof he's either Aegon or a false Aegon? (is Griff = Jon Connington based just on the name Griff or something else?)

There is no proof. Grif – 2’nd Tyrion chapter obviously = griffin from Daenerys chapter definitely arms of house Connington. There were only three Conningtons alive by the time - Jon Connington, his cousin who was given family castle by Robert and Red Ronnet who is presently the head of the house – so his father died. Since Red Ronnet couldn’t be Grif from spoilers it is Jon Connington almost for sure.
Now from Tyrion’s chapter Grif is “old friend� of Illirio and trusted by him. We also see that Grif won’t take orders from Illirio so his position in the plot is equal to Varys and Illirio.
This raises a couple of questions:
1. Why Connington faked rumors about his death and avoided any notice so much time?
2. Equal position means equal roles. We know more or the less what Varys and Illirio roles in the plot but what Grif could be doing that is no less important?

So if Young Grif is Aegon (no matter real or false) we will get pretty good answers to both questions.

[Andhaira]

I wonder about Victarions interaction with dany. Dany will need the Iron Fleet. OTOH she will NOT want to marry Victarion (or Euron for that matter)

What will happen? Its all so exciting!

Hurry up GRRM!

[stc2583]

Regarding Quaithe's prophecy.....

Could be Bran warging Drogo the mummer's dragon??

We know (by spoilers, of course) Drogon is heading north. Bran is there and improving his warg skills. Indeed, he might be a dragon rider (Martin stated that needn't to be Targ)

Also, Bran dreamed on a black shadow flying over Winterfell.

And finnally, the mummer's dragon is at the end of Quaithe's prophecy, so Dany-Bran/Drogon encounter would be the last one. The dragon flies beyond the wall and comes back to Slavers Bay.

[trio]

I've been thinking about "The mummers dragon"....

Could it be Tyrek?

If Varys really did spirit him away during the riots and say, deliver him to Illyrio (which is why he's never been found), then why not?

You could speculate that once Viserys died, Varys/Illyrio decided to have a fake Targ in their pocket. Dany was off with the Dothraki, beyond their control.

Given his age, he could be either Aerys' son or Rhaegars', and of course he has the pale hair.

The only thing I can't figure out is why Tyrek who could be recognised?? Why not a random stableboy who has white hair?

I'm convinced we're going to see Tyrek again - two years older remember - and I'm also convinced his disappearance was organised by Varys. I'm just trying to figure out if he could be used as a fake Targ.

It's possible that given him ageing Tyrion wouldn't recognise him, though it's a big maybe as Tyrion is pretty observant.

If he had become disfigured in the riot it would make a lot more sense....

What do you think??

[L. Lambert Lawson]

Tyrek.... Intriguing.

[Miriel]

trio, on 03 April 2010 - 12:09 PM, said:

I'm convinced we're going to see Tyrek again - two years older remember - and I'm also convinced his disappearance was organised by Varys. I'm just trying to figure out if he could be used as a fake Targ.

It's possible that given him ageing Tyrion wouldn't recognise him, though it's a big maybe as Tyrion is pretty observant.

If he had become disfigured in the riot it would make a lot more sense....

What do you think??

I think Tyrek will appear again, but at Cersei's trial, singing the song of her killing the King and sleeping w/ Lancel.

Too many people In Westeros would know Tyrek was a Lannister, not a Targ. It wouldn't work.

Tyrion would definitely recognize his cousin.

[trio]

Quote

Too many people In Westeros would know Tyrek was a Lannister, not a Targ. It wouldn't work.

Wait, wait....both of Tyreks parents are dead right? Well why not alledge that Aerys or Rhaegar is still his real father? That Tygett was cuckolded?

It might not be remotely true of course, but you could convince a poor vunerable orphan boy of it easily enough if you have him captive and removed from everyone.

And now that Tywin is dead - who's strong enough to squash that story??

Tyrek could be totally brainwashed that his mother was a Lannister but his father was a Targ. And given Rhaegar's infamous spiriting away of Lyanna Stark, people may very well believe it.

Even Tyrion might frown a bit and wonder if there's any truth in it.

It might just work!

Quote

I think Tyrek will appear again, but at Cersei's trial, singing the song of her killing the King and sleeping w/ Lancel.

I disagree, simply because Lancel is more than able to sing that song himself. Now that he's got religion he'll be more believed than he ever could have been before. Tyrek isn't remotely needed.

Also, why abduct and keep a boy for TWO YEARS just to be a witness at a trial that Varys couldn't predict at the time of the riots was even going to happen?

This post has been edited by trio: 04 April 2010 - 07:34 AM

[Dothwacky]

Tyrek looks like a Lannister though, not a Targ, and I think is still a couple years off of how old Aegon would be.

[Miriel]

trio, on 04 April 2010 - 08:33 AM, said:

Even Tyrion might frown a bit and wonder if there's any truth in it.

I disagree, simply because Lancel is more than able to sing that song himself. Now that he's got religion he'll be more believed than he ever could have been before. Tyrek isn't remotely needed.

Also, why abduct and keep a boy for TWO YEARS just to be a witness at a trial that Varys couldn't predict at the time of the riots was even going to happen?

As to Tyrek, he was King Robert's squire ... he would have been seen and quite visible to the court at King's Landing. The court is still full of people who knew him. He is a bad candidate if you are trying to fool the highborn and powerful of Westeros, b/c he used to be there, working among them. it just would not work. And I didn't even get into that Ned thinks to himself how the King's two squires look like Lannisters. The Targs have a very different look.

I don't know why anyone would keep him for two years. (Actually we don't know any one has done so). But it seems more likely than that he was just killed in the riots b/c several characters think as late as Feast how odd it was he could not be found. So it does seem he will turn up again. And there is no doubt he was on of the two people who knew that Cersei had urged them to give the King the strongwine, which does make his testimony against her quite valuable.

I do agree re: Lancel, he could easily now testify against Cersei, but at the time Tyrek was snatched Lancel still loved Cersei (indeed he still kind of seems to love her) and it was much less likely that he would turn against her.

This post has been edited by Miriel: 04 April 2010 - 11:33 AM