[Pre-ADwD Spoilers] Daenerys 3 - Spoilers for ADWD
Posted 12 November 2005 - 10:38 PM
Posted 13 November 2005 - 09:56 PM
Posted 14 November 2005 - 07:32 AM
Posted 14 November 2005 - 06:05 PM
He doesn't seem like it, but how could we know? Anything is possible in Westeros.
Edited by ActRight05, 14 November 2005 - 06:06 PM.
Posted 15 November 2005 - 06:41 AM
I advanced a theory on another thread that Varys will turn on Dany because he is anti-magic. This 'warning' gives me more confidence in that theory.
Posted 15 November 2005 - 12:55 PM
Ok, maybe I'm nuts but I have a different take on this "prophecy"
First does anyone know what the "glass candles" are? This would probably give us some from of reference. I am not sure who the pale mare is but I think the others are this
Crow: Aemon. He is the only (known) living member of the family.
Kracken: Theon Greyjoy. I think at some point he is going to take the black, being a slight outcast he will accompany Aemon on his journey.
Lion: Tyrion, I think EVERYONE believes this
Griffen: I haven't read too many spoilers, and haven't read AFFC but everyone beleives that this will be young "Griff"
Sun's Son: Quentyn Martell, also seems pretty obvious
Mummer's Dragon: I am starting to buy into the Baby Aegon imposter theory.
If you notice they are given in pairs. Aemon and Theon may come together, Tryrion and Griff come together, and finally Martell and the imposter com together. I think that the Martells are going to try and get the dragon's AND with the "rightful" heir to the throne they will try and usurp Dany's power.
I think that Illyrio is the "perfumed" senechal. I beleive the Illyrio is going to betray Dany. Dany I think will unwittingly trust him because of his past protection. Varys has only ever acted in a manner to protect the realm and bring back the Targaryen family to power. Illyrio on the other hand isn't quite as atruistic. I think Illyrio is going to bring the Mummer's Dragon and betray Dany.
Quaithe says to "remember the undying" is this a reference to one of the visions she saw there, or some other aspect of her trip.
FINALLY, unrelated to the dream is the following line...
Barsena replies that "all men must die... all women, too."
Isn't this the Faceless Men's creed? I wonder if Barsena is a faceless man?
Edited by Bormon, 15 November 2005 - 01:24 PM.
Posted 15 November 2005 - 01:19 PM
Without giving away more at least one of your guesses is impossible.
Posted 15 November 2005 - 01:26 PM
Without giving away more at least one of your guesses is impossible.
No I haven't (I miss typed above) So without giving it away....I can assume that at least ONE of my guesses is dead, hmmmmmm.... that sux
Posted 15 November 2005 - 04:25 PM
Two of your theories are dead wrong from information in AFFC, another two are on the button and your open-ended question gets answered in AFFC.
Hope that's not too spoilerific. Actually telling you the exact details would definitely wreck some of the story surprises in AFFC.
Barsena's All Men Must Die seems to be the creed of the Faceless Men, derived from Valyria (Valar Morghulis).
Edited by Werthead, 15 November 2005 - 04:27 PM.
Posted 16 November 2005 - 12:28 PM
Posted 16 November 2005 - 06:37 PM
Edited by Mikey, 16 November 2005 - 06:38 PM.
Posted 17 November 2005 - 12:44 AM
Dany's Meereen advisor seems like a red herring, although he is untrustworthy.
Varys could be him as well. Perhaps he supported Dany returning, but now that he has learned she has dragons, he may become her enemy? (Remember that he hates magic)
Posted 19 November 2005 - 03:19 AM
I also think after some of the politics outlined in this chapter that Dany will leave Mereen to seek shelter in Asshai, following Quaithe's instructions and coming to Westeros the other way round. She can't afford a war against Quarth, Yunkai and all their allies. The dragons are too terrifying to people, it fucks with the economy by letting someone like Dany have power, warriors Dany can handle, but I think she can only run from the economic and scientific zealots that will strive to destroy the dragons and all they stand for. Asshai and the Red Priests seem to be the only people in the world that want the dragons to survive.
Edited by lockesnow, 19 November 2005 - 03:21 AM.
Posted 19 November 2005 - 11:29 AM
There are a billion factions scattered around Martin's world who would love to get their hands on Dany's dragon and even merely to know her more closely.
Posted 19 November 2005 - 10:25 PM
I think Tyrion and Quenten are correct, but you'll see that there are better candidates for the other spots after finishing tFfC. :read: :cheers:
Posted 20 November 2005 - 06:52 AM
Crow and Kraken; Euron and Victarion
Lion and Griffin: Tyrion and Griff/Young Griff
Sun's son and Mummer's Dragon: Quentyn Martell and someone from the Golden Company
The perfumed seneschal?
Reznak, Illyrio or Varys.
Pale Mare: Some sort of reference to a Dothrake who is forthcoming IMO.
The perfumed seneshal is VARYS
Posted 20 November 2005 - 12:23 PM
will bittersteels descendant have the tarygan sword?
Posted 20 November 2005 - 05:14 PM
I looked up the definition of seneschal on dictionary.com, since I had no idea what the word meant.
An official in a medieval noble household in charge of domestic arrangements and the administration of servants; a steward or major-domo.
That sounds much less like Varys and more like someone named Illyrio. But there are many candidates for this person beyond even him, in particular Xaro Xhoan Daxos. Let's examine both cases.
Arguement for Illyrio
1. He is a magister with a considerable number of servants at his command. The text notes Unsullied are used as his household guard, while from Dany's AGOT chapters, Illyrio provides servants to teach her the Dothraki tongue and horseback riding. He does fit a definition of a possible seneschal.
1. Illyrio is working with Varys to return Targaryen's to the throne. Betrayal needs a motive. Queenmaking is quite profitable, so any benefit from hurting Dany would be far outweighed by supporting her. Another reason must exist besides monetary gain.
2. Why provide Dany with Barristan and Strong Belwas? Both have proved trustworthy and valuable additions to her party.
Arguement for Xaro Xhoan Daxos:
1. From ACOK, Xaro's home is described as "a palace larger than many a market town" with "slaves to tend her every need" (p. 320 US Hardcover). Xaro is described as surrounding himself with silks and possessing his own pleasure barge. A perfumed seneschal is an appropriate title for Xaro.
2. Xaro clearly coveted Dany's dragons, as seen my his courting her for a wife, despite having no desire for women.
3. From the spoiler chapters, Xaro has already threatened Dany with "war."
1. Xaro is a merchant prince of Qarth. A seneschal does seem to imply an absence of royalty, which would make more sense then for Varys or Illyrio to be the ideal candidates since both were born poor.
Arguement for Varys:
1. An accurate take on Varys is definitely "perfumed." He often wear silks and colorful garb.
2. Varys is in a very good position to ruin Dany's plans. He has a professed animosity towards all magic users, and must of heard the link between Dragons and magic.
1. Why go through the effort to get Dorne's backing for Dany, marry her to Khal Drogo, and acquire Tyrion's assistance if he only intends to betray her. That is alot of unnecessary work.
2. Though Varys has his "little birds", he doesn't quite fit the definition of a steward. He deals in secrets, not in ruling a household.
For my take, it seems apparant that Xaro is the prime candidate, but it's not a perfect guess.
Edited by Artanaro, 21 November 2005 - 01:29 PM.
Posted 21 November 2005 - 04:56 AM
Posted 22 November 2005 - 05:17 PM