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Sothoros / Sothoryos


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13 replies to this topic

#1 hett

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 09:34 PM

So, in previous books, AFFC at least, the southern continent is referred to as Sothoros. In ADWD, it is referred to as Sothoros until the second or third time it is mentioned, at which point it suddenly becomes Sothoryos for the remaining 2-3 mentions in the book. I would attest this to simple error except for the fact that the map also has it named Sothoryos.

AWOIAF currently has Sothoryos redirect to Sothoros, and the Talk page has a short discussion about Sothoros being the proper name.

So what is the deal? Is the map in error? Or has the name Sothoros been retconned into Sothoryos? Any word from GRRM on this?

Edit: also, this is my first post on these forums, so I hope I am not breaking any sort of code of conduct with this post. Hello!

Edited by hett, 28 July 2011 - 09:35 PM.


#2 The Pale Griffin

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 07:43 AM

So what is the deal? Is the map in error? Or has the name Sothoros been retconned into Sothoryos? Any word from GRRM on this?



Welcome! Usually, the maps are mistaken. On other maps, such as the AFFC Map of the South you`ll notice that Snakewood is mispelled as Sunkenwood. There are other errors, especially with missing or added apostraphes. We try to go by the text for the most part first, because of the sheer number of errors in the maps.

#3 hett

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 04:42 PM

Welcome! Usually, the maps are mistaken. On other maps, such as the AFFC Map of the South you`ll notice that Snakewood is mispelled as Sunkenwood. There are other errors, especially with missing or added apostraphes. We try to go by the text for the most part first, because of the sheer number of errors in the maps.


So I assume the wiki is operating under the pretense that the later spellings of Sothoryos are typos on the part of the editor, using the map as a reference?

#4 The Pale Griffin

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 07:02 PM

Yes and no. Yes, because in the discussion we had we choose the former spelling. And No, because we can always change it. Though before we decided to change it, I would ask for Scafloc to weigh in. He's the other serious contributor on the wiki, though ASHaber is really starting to build up the edits, as is Arek, Cmtdrt, and Anguy. I'd like to get their input before we unilaterally change an entire article that has already had a discussion.

Edited by The Pale Griffin, 29 July 2011 - 07:11 PM.


#5 Scafloc

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Posted 01 August 2011 - 03:05 PM

Booth are mentioned in the text 3 times in ADWD. Sothoryos is the name in the map, but Sothoros appears once in the text of AFFC so in that the "score" is equal.

What could be the tiebreaker is that "Sothoryos" is mentioned in So Spake Martin. It was used in an answer to a question. So it is possible that GRRM did not intend this spelling to be canon. But it is best source we have and it seems to be used most on the internet (try google). So I would suggest the we go for Sothoryos.

Edit: I saw on the talk page that this has been discussed before. However that was before the publication of ADWD and we did not know the use in So Spake Martin.

Edited by Scafloc, 01 August 2011 - 03:09 PM.


#6 dayna

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Posted 01 August 2011 - 03:17 PM

I'm fine with whatever the consensus decides.

#7 Hot Pie Targaryen

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 09:22 AM

Either spelling is acceptable. Think about Earth's geography. The actual name of the capital of Portugal is Lisboa, yet we English speakers call it Lisbon. Likewise the natives of Belgium's capital call it Bruxelles (French) or Brussel (Dutch) while English speakers call it Brussels. Never mind Germany, Deutschland or Alemania.

#8 Arkash

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 12:07 PM

Would be interesting to have a trip via a character there...

#9 Zar Lannister

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 07:36 AM

Noble ?Shezdan? is the only character we know to have been in Sothoryos, so far.

Euron Crow's Eye and if Gerion Lannister ever returns are two potential candidates to have been there.

#10 Valkyrist

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 09:41 PM

Couldn't it just as easily depend on dialect? Presumably the word is derived from Old Valyrian, but perhaps the Westerosi pornounce/write it as "Sothoros", whearas people from across the narrow sea, who are closer to the original term, pronounce it "Sothoryos". There are plenty of examples of a Latin term, changing to an Old English term, changing again to a Modern English term. Maybe GRRM is refering to that.

#11 Lord Duncan

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 12:42 AM

I like how "Sothoryos" sounds much better than "Sothoros" but whatever becomes canon will be fine /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

And yes, just like Hot Pie pointed out, it might be explained by different pronunciations of the same name.

#12 Werthead

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 06:53 AM

Ran's already confirmed - I believe - that GRRM has settled on Sothoryos as the final name. Apparently he was wavering during ADWD, but decided on Sothoryos whilst working on Lands of Ice and Fire. 'Sothoros' can certainly be rationalised as an incorrect-but-popular dialect version or alternate spelling.

#13 LordStoneheart

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 12:16 AM

Ran's already confirmed - I believe - that GRRM has settled on Sothoryos as the final name. Apparently he was wavering during ADWD, but decided on Sothoryos whilst working on Lands of Ice and Fire. 'Sothoros' can certainly be rationalised as an incorrect-but-popular dialect version or alternate spelling.


Yeah as soon as I saw the post I looked up at my LOIAF map and saw Sothoryos. Just a regional variation without the Y.

I think this does happen elsewhere in the series. There's a house named Velaryon that probably comes from Valyrian, as they did come with Aegon the Dragon.

#14 Deas agus Tuath

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 03:30 PM

Well back when there was no printing press spellings were never final (I remember reading a book from a old house near me in the Lothians where History was spelt three different ways!) perhaps the difference in spelling is just human error with different people thinking it's spelt different ways?