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Comparisons or just accept as is...?


Capon Breath

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Hi all,

My first post - am about 1/5th way through aSoS so positing here to avoid spoilers. I am Loving the books.

Do people make any comparisons between the continents / nations / races in the books and the real world?

I find myself thinking of Westeros as having parallels to Europe

Dothraki as Mongolian

Asshai as China / Japan

No real reasons why - was just interested if other readers draw any parralels of simply accept a fantasy world for what it is?

Thanks

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Well looking at the maps there is an obvious link between Westeros and the UK, the thought that the Wall and everything north of might represent Scotland, including the wildlings, never fails to make me smile, my Scottish relatives would love that! But when I read I tend to forget about that and the rest of the world and let myself become absorbed into the history and mythology of a fictional world.

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Well looking at the maps there is an obvious link between Westeros and the UK, the thought that the Wall and everything north of might represent Scotland, including the wildlings, never fails to make me smile, my Scottish relatives would love that! But when I read I tend to forget about that and the rest of the world and let myself become absorbed into the history and mythology of a fictional world.

Lol Wildlings = Scottish people ! Having been out in Glasgow a few times, seems reasonable ! (just joking of course)

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Westeros, of course, does have parallels, many quite direct to Medieval Europe. However, the Dothraki and Asshai are less certain.

In regards to Asshai, we simply don't know enough about them to come to any major conclusion, though certain aspects seem to place it on a far more fantastic level than any Earthly country. If truth be told, I always suspected Yi Ti was the closest to a China/Japan parallel, though we really don't know much about it either.

The Dothraki now, due to a far larger mountain of evidence, are much easier.

Mongolians are right out; Most Mongolian parallels in fiction are with Genghis Khan, and the Dothraki are different from the Mongols of Genghis Khan in that the Mongolians were a far more disciplined army, had less of an aversion to sheep, and most of all, made heavy use of armoured heavy cavalry and siege weaponry. I think that some of the less centrally organized nomadic tribes might be a more appropriate parallel.

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  • 1 month later...

Yeah, it's definitely hard to judge the extent of the parallels without more geographical and cultural knowledge of far east Essos, but it'd be folly to deny that they are indeed there. I'm much more curious as to what is south of both Westeros and Essos and if there is an African influence in its geography and culture.

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I like to immerse myself in the world as much as possible, so I haven't really thought about comparisons.

When I think about it Westeros clearly does seem like Europe. The dothraki always seemed like Native Americans to me due to the love of horses and what not. Don't take what I say too seriously though because I don't know much of Native American culture to really back that thought up.

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westeros draws clear parallels to feudal europe, but i get the sense that the rest of the ice and fire world is a little looser in its direct parallels to actual cultures and races. the dothraki exhibit characteristics of a number of ancient cultures and a lot of characteristics that are unique to the dothraki. the same seems to be true with all the different inhabitants of Essos we've seen so far. similarities to certain ancient cultures, but not enough for me to say, oh yeah these guys are the persians, these are the egyptians, these are the mongolians, etc.

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Aren't the Summer Isles somewhat African??

Interesting - my though on Summers Isles was always Carribean as a comparison. But yes based on descriptions they are cleary Hot with a Black population.

Now that I am into AFFC and learning more about Dorne that strikes me as North Africanesque, Morocco / Tunisia etc in terms of Landscape, weather, food people eat there etc.

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What about animals? I envisioned shadowcats as being or at least resembling snow leopards. Have no clear idea what a tree cat might look like. Maybe a lynx or cougar?

What about lizard-lions? What do they look like?

I imagin a shadow cat looking like the "beast of Lamot" from "Lager of Lamot" adverts from the 1980s? No-one? Ah well basically like a big black panther.

I also imagine Aurochs to look like Highland cattle but bigger.

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  • 6 months later...

the North - Scotland, but generally Celtic.

Iron Islands - Scandinavia in the viking era.

the Eyrie - Switzerland or maybe the Balkan areas during the Medieval Ages.

the Riverlands - I've always thought of them as Medieval Poland; lots of knights, but no natural defenses and powerful neighbors.

the Reach - Medieval France in the height of chivalry.

the Westerlands - possibly medieval Germany? Rather mountainous, lots of mining, known for craftsmanship and trade.

Dorne - Medieval Spain with a strong Moorish influence, although as GRRM has said, there's strong Welsh elements there too

Stormlands/Crownlands - I get more of a Medieval English vibe, given their longstanding feuds with the Dornish and the Reach.

Essos:

- I've argued that the Dothraki are actually more similar to the Huns than the Mongols.

- Free Cities are closest to Renaissance Italian city-states (Braavos is Venice with a hint of Rhodes, Pentos seems Genoan, Tyrosh might be Milan, Myr might be Florence, Norvos sounds like Rome). I get a strong Byzantine feeling from the Volantines.

- The Cities of Slavers Bay - Carthaginians.

- Qarth - I get a Cretan/Minoan/Atlantis vibe from them.

- Asshai - I think is wholly fantasy, but we haven't really gotten enough details to tell.

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  • 2 years later...

The Starks and co - Northern England

The Lannisters - Southern England

The Wildlings - Scotland

Braavosi - Italian

Dorne - Spain

Dothraki - Mongals

Slavers Bay etc - Persia or Egypt maybe

Tyrells - France

Tyroshi - Chinese?

Iron Islands - Scandinavia

Summer Isles - Africa

That's how I see it in my head. Good topic :-)

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  • 4 months later...

I've always considered the series to take place in our future, not an alternate mythical past. It goes like this:



Modern society develops biological, chemical and other sciences to the point that we can create things that appear "magical" in the story: dragons, CotF, White Walkers, skinchangers, etc. Then along comes the next Ice Age or other global terraforming event that erases all trace of us, but the living creations go native and carve out their own existences, as does mankind.



Flash forward about 500,000 years or so and man is reduced to a prehistoric, caveman state, only to resume the same pattern of social and civil development that recreates the feudal period we see now.



In the meantime, land masses have shifted and seas have been altered so that the British Isles and Western Europe are now joined and there is a land bridge extending to the north pole, while most of northern Europe is underwater, as are parts of Africa and the ME in a larger, less-defined Mediterranean Sea.



If anyone does return from the Sunset Sea, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if they report a huge land mass, rather than a direct route to Asshai.


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First Men = Celts

Andals = Anglo Saxons

Valyrians = Normans (plus some Atlantis legend thrown in?)

Old Gods = Celtic Religions

Religion of the Seven = Graeco-Roman Paganism

Religion of the Lord of Light = Christianity

R'hollorism/Lord of the Light religion is not like (traditional) Christianity at all (other than the fact that the burning of the statues of Seven by Stannis reminds me of the prince Vladimir of Kiev (10th century) throwing the statues of the Slavic gods into the river as a part of his forced christianization of his people, after he had converted himself). It's most reminiscent of Zoroastrianism, or Manichaeism or maybe the medieval dualist Christian 'heresies' (the Bogumils, the Cathars etc.).

The Faith of the Seven is a lot more like Christianity, i.e. established Christian churches, most specifically like the Catholic Church, especially in its structure, even though GRRM made it a polytheist religion - but even that is ambiguous, since we learn that their official theology says the Seven are just aspects of one deity (a bit like the Holy Trinity). So, it's a curious mix of Catholicism and polytheism, but even the polytheistic aspect is absolutely nothing like the Greco-Roman pantheon.

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