The Hound

[RadicalRaddish]

Hi All,

I'm so glad to have found a forum to discuss A Song of Ice and Fire. Like many, I was hooked onto the series (had the books for the longest time but never read them) by the HBO TV series.

I'm currently half-way through ACoK. Does anyone find Sandor Clegane's character to be very nuanced? In GoT, one gets the impression that he's brutal and bloodthirsty given the way he hacked down the butcher's boy. But towards the end of the book, he seems to have developed a soft spot for Sansa. He saved her on numerous occassions. If I'm not mistaken, when Sansa was contemplating throwing herself and Joffrey off the bridge (when Joffrey forced her to look upon the severed heads) ... I think Sandor figured what Sansa was planning and interposed himself between Sansa and Joffrey, not to save Joffrey's life so much as to prevent Sansa from killing herself. And his refusal to beat Sansa in ACoK as well as shielding her from Joffrey is admirable.

And I hear Sandor will meet Arya later in the book or in the series and Arya eventually will take him off her "deserves-to-die list". That says a lot about someone who, only one book ago was portrayed as a bloody killer.

[SerGreenbud]

My notion is that he was following orders by cutting down the butcher's boy, though that hardly forgives his actions. To some degree maybe the Lannisters dehumanised him in his own eyes. He was a loyal dog doing his masters bidding without much consideration.

He's also, without doubt, a very brutal man. Mycah was likely not the first innocent he murdered.

[LionnaXCalm as Still Water]

Honestly Sandor has developed into one of my favorite characters. He is the only one who I am not conflicted in adoring. He is true to himself which is much more than can be said for quite a few others. You can't argue with his brutality. Yes, he's killed and in revoltingly violent ways, but he has never tried to shield his acts by claiming them for honor or title. He does what he does, that's the end of it. And of course there is his defense of sansa, which no one else dare do...Save for Tyrion, who dares to do anything...

Thus far in both GoT and CoK I have not read a scene more heartbreakingly, disgustingly beautiful as that of when Joffrey calls in Sansa to be beat for more of Robb's advances. When The Hound is prepared to stand up to Joffrey and say "Enough" to end the brutality...stand up to his King, who he has served for years. That was touching. All of his actions towards Sansa are gentle, that says quite a bit about a man who was earlier thought a malicious brute.

Ohh and kudos for Tyrion when he breaks up that party.

[Robb_]

He is one of my favourite characters.

To me, he comes across as reluctantly following his orders in killing Mycah. I think he puts on an act and wants people to hate him, but deep down he is a good person.

[LionnaXCalm as Still Water]

I agree, even though I don't think he's totally pure and innocent.

It's so strange to see how much more dedicated to honor he is than the knights he hates so.

[Slynn71]

I think he's brutal and bloodthirsty. I think the hound has feelings for Sansa that he surprise him and he doesn't know how to relate or deal. He's savage, but I think in his own head he thinks he's protecting her..in his own cruel and vicious way.

[Tammy]

To me, he comes across as reluctantly following his orders in killing Mycah.

I agree with this as evidenced by his insistence to Arya that she not say his name anymore.

[A.dor]

I love the Hound! I think he's a typical bad boy, you just hate to love him. I loved the tension between him and Sansa during the novel and I was hoping something more would happen between them, maybe in the futur...

[LionnaXCalm as Still Water]

He's rapidly developed into my favorite character given the most recent chapter I've read. I wish he played a bigger role in the novels...maybe there will be more from him to come.

My theory on him just keeps bouncing from one thing to the other...I can't get a grasp on him but what I can say is that I don't think he is necessarily what everyone makes him out to be.

I don't think he's this gentle tortured soul, but he's not a bloodthirsty madman either.

My newest theory is that he, because of "old demons" (if you're on to clash of kings you should know what I'm talking about, concerning his childhood), and the fact that he has always lived in the shadow of the Mountain (literally and figuratively), he has had to strive from a young age to harden himself against everyone and everything. It in essence did turn him into a bitter, murderous individual but there is a substantial amount of humanity left, brought about courtesy of Sansa.

What really led me to this belief was when

It is implied that he cried after Sansa sang the two hymn verses..That whole scene almost brought tears to my eyes given his obvious tortured struggle and her desire to help him.

[Steel Seller]

I just finished Clash of Kings this week and WOW! So much going on, but I love what has been going on with the Hound. He has become one of my faves, but I thought that was going to change ...

When the Hound confronted Sansa, I really thought he was going to rape her.

[SummerGhostofNymeria]

I feel like he's a very complicated character, and there's much more to him then only what we've seen by CoK. I like The Hound, oddly enough I've had a little bit of a soft spot for him since the beginning. He doesn't get much respect from the Lannisters (no surprise there). Who knows, maybe the way those have treated him before will come back around in the end.

[Silmarien]

I love how nuanced and well-written Sandor Clegane the character is. GRRM is great at writing such characters.

Sandor obviously is brutal, and full of RAGE, most of all. He does as ordered (by the Lannisters), but doesn't seem to relish brutality. Though sorely lacking in social skills, The Hound has certainly distinguished himself from his full-on rabid and brutal older brother, Gregor, The Mountain.

I find it fascinating that Sandor's hatred of "Sers" and anybody calling him a knight is because he sees right through those "knightly vows", he sees Knights do terrible things. Hound refuses to take the vows because he knows what their worth - they're useless, and a hypocrisy, especially when it comes to Gregor and others like him (most of Tywin Lannister's "dogs").

Sandor clearly has feelings for Sansa, but his social ineptitude makes him awkward in how he expresses them. When he sits waiting for her in her room,

I don't think he came to rape her. I think he came to offer to help her escape, and to offer her protection, because he's in love with her. I just think he was so socially inept and rull of anger that his intentions came across as threatening to Sansa, who refuses his offer of protection. In the end, all he demanded was a song...not to harm Sansa.

Also, with Arya: (aSoS spoilers)

he isn't the NICEST guy around to her when he kidnaps her from the BWB, but he treats her well enough. Sandor does not beat her or rape her - all he does is threaten bloody violence (but never really acts on it). The only time Arya was hit was really Hound saving her from rushing into The Twins, where she would've likely been killed. Hound mostly seems to be looking to ransom her, no more. The confrontation in the inn with Polliver and Tickler was one of my fav scenes in aSoS.

AFFC spoilers (minor)

I hope we haven't seen the last of Sandor, after he parts ways with Arya. I'm fairly certain we'll be seeing more of him.

[Gurthnar]

Well first I want to point out, how in ASoIaF ugly, or deformed characters always drink their cups of bitterness down to the bottom. You hear Tyrion complain about his appearance all the time, though he is no soft-heart.

Now compare it to having half of face and head burned badly by your own brother because of a toy wooden knight.

I would not be surprised at all to find out later in the series, that he has been in love in the past also, but being refused because of his appearance. That, combined with being refused by pretty much everyone else, combined with living in a shade of big brother, combined with being capable of some serious men-slaughter and I can see clearly why Sandor behaves his way.

I can see him in a very deep depression, sarcasm and bitterness turning his social skills to wreck over the years, him forsaking life as it is, consciously balancing between life and death (did you see how easily did he throw himself between Gregor and Loras at the tourney in GoT?).

Now Sansa comes on the stage, and somehow he happens to be in love with her. By the end of CoK it is apparent, he is trying to make a move on her, but IMHO he sees the refusal immediately, going through all the "sad love" story all again in his mind. Explains his behavior a bit.

[richardya]

He is "The Hound," there are no bad dogs just bad masters who make dogs do bad things.

He clearly has redemption in his future, the origin of his burns inspire sympathy from the reader so we forgive him and eventually we will like him and root for him. I see him eventually dieing for a Stark.

[Bell]

As other characters (such as Theon or Jaqen H'Ghar), I've discovered parts of him I didn't even imagine. The more I read, the more I like him and feel sorry for him. Just the way he keeps saying that Sansa's still terrified by him - and most of all, his face - even after what he's done to try to help, like he wishes she would see that he can be kind and that she should not fear him. (I haven't been writing in English for a while, I feel like I can't express myself like I'd like to XD)

Can't wait to see what happens next!

[jessalyn]

Caro99-- You might want to mark the spoilers as not everyone reading this forum have read that far. It's only fair not to discuss things that happen later down the line...

Anyway...

As one said, he's the dog. Dogs aren't evil, owners are. Lannisters own the dogs, and they are quite ruthless at this point. Joffrey being his "owner" just kinda makes me go "okay, he can't be THAT bad..."

Later down the line, in Book 3; (not much of a spoiler, just discussing character qualities)

I feel a bit more sorry for him, and he's becoming a bit more endearing as a character-- but in Book 3, lots of characters change.

Yes, killing people is bad, as someone said-- but this is war games we're talking about. If someone who has taken a sworn oath to protect whatever house or country or whatever, can we really say they are bad people when they are just following orders? I look at it the same as pet owners and parents with their children.

[TyrionFan82]

I've grown to like him too over the first 2 books. I didn't agree w/his killing of Mycah, but I do like how he's protective of Sansa. I like how he stopped her from pushing him off the battlements and in ACOK refused to beat her and went out of his way to help her in other regards like at Joffrey's tourney....I don't recall what Sansa said exactly but it offended Joffrey somehow and Sandor defended her. Also he shows a depth that he won't even admit, which is interesting also. I can say though that last chapter w/him and Sansa was intense and I was afraid for her for a second. He definitely is a character though I'd love to see as a POV character.

[TheDrawback]

Hmm sandor is complicated if you ask me. he is brutal and loves to fight but on the other hand he is way different than his brother gregor (who is just a beast) sandor still has some good in him as you will see further on. So hopfully it comes to a clash between the hound and the mountain. I would love to see that fight and sandor deserves some vengance for what his brother has done to him too.

[TyrionFan82]

I really liked that Sandor went out looking for Sansa after the riot and saved from God's knows what. He's not a saint by any means, but a better man than we originally thought I think. He's a xharacter that really intrigues me & who I can't wait to see what happens with.

[TheDrawback]

I am reading DwD now so I know a little more about the Hound but i would say keep reading ;)