65 replies to this topic

[Reyne]

I expect Varys to try and make the Faith convict Margaery. But she still has the option of trial by combat with 'Robert Strong', after all (she's the queen, and he's a Kingsguard.)

[Stallion That Mounts Texas]

bens, on 04 August 2011 - 02:11 PM, said:

The mention of House Mudd seemed weird; I thought they were extinct well before there could have been a Golden Company. But perhaps they survived, just much reduced, as Lords or Knights in the Riverlands until the Blackfyre era.

Anyway, there's a thread on here somewhere that presents some pretty good evidence that Lord Rowan is the supporter in the Reach, and possibly also Lady Oakheart or Lord Tarly, all of whom are pretty big deals.

Also, House Peake is still around, but Lord Peake's wife is a Lannister--not likely to back Aegon.

House Mandrake appears to have never been mentioned before.

What is the evidence that Mathis Rowan is the secret friend?

[Kaitscralt]

Is Ser Robert "UnGregor" Strong supposed to have an imaginary backstory that fits him into one of these families? Or do you think Qyburn just wanted him to sound powerful?

[MinotaurWarrior]

Reyne, on 04 August 2011 - 05:08 PM, said:

I expect Varys to try and make the Faith convict Margaery. But she still has the option of trial by combat with 'Robert Strong', after all (she's the queen, and he's a Kingsguard.)

He's kingsguard, but he's also an abomination under Qyburn's control, and I doubt he'll extend his favors to her. It'd be pretty simple to arrange it so Robert receives some wound that prevents him from fighting in the trial until Qyburn declares that he has recovered.

[Davos' Middle Finger]

Alekyne is Sam's uncle, not his cousin.

[bens]

Markus, on 04 August 2011 - 04:46 PM, said:

Who is going to fight against whom and why?

Could maybe remotely see the Queen of Thorns finally giving up on Mace and abandoning him. Despite being his mother, she does think he's a total fool and never approved of the alliance with the Lannisters. But that seems unlikely to me.

Edited by bens, 04 August 2011 - 05:56 PM.

[J.J.Schafes]

LordBloodravenI, on 04 August 2011 - 04:49 PM, said:

Probably because he's a badass who doesn't take shit from no one and has a big fucking sword.

There is the slight matter of him being a total dick, he threatens to have his son killed and then sends him away to the wall to die, he is overproud, and is a misogenist.

[bens]

Stallion That Mounts Texas, on 04 August 2011 - 05:09 PM, said:

What is the evidence that Mathis Rowan is the secret friend?

He's expressed more discomfort than the other Reach lords in the past about the murder of Elia and her children, and he hated Tywin Lannister's sense of "justice". Additionally, he and Mace Tyrell were sent off to besiege Storm's End, but he never came back, while Mace and all of the other Reach Lords (except the recluse Lord Hightower) have converged on King's Landing and begun ruling. He hasn't been seen on screen since Margaery and Tommen were wed and is not participating in the Small Council otherwise taken over by Reach Lords.

The very fact that he seems to be leading the siege at Storm's End, combined with Jon Connington's odd confidence in taking the castle, suggests that he's a supporter.

Edited by bens, 04 August 2011 - 06:04 PM.

[Elenya Westerling]

Kaitscralt, on 04 August 2011 - 05:12 PM, said:

Is Ser Robert "UnGregor" Strong supposed to have an imaginary backstory that fits him into one of these families? Or do you think Qyburn just wanted him to sound powerful?

I think that it's meant to sound plausible that he could come from an existing family, and picking one that used to be in power but currently isn't very infulential means that it's less likely for somebody to out him as a fake. It's a bit of Qyburn being a prat in naming him too, though.

[Reyne]

MinotaurWarrior, on 04 August 2011 - 05:13 PM, said:

He's kingsguard, but he's also an abomination under Qyburn's control, and I doubt he'll extend his favors to her. It'd be pretty simple to arrange it so Robert receives some wound that prevents him from fighting in the trial until Qyburn declares that he has recovered.

True, but isn't Margaery's trial first, as she was accused before Cersei?

I may have missed something here, though.

Quote

The very fact that he seems to be leading the siege at Storm's End, combined with Jon Connington's odd confidence in taking the castle, suggests that he's a supporter.

I'm not sure what this has to do with each other. How would having a supporter outside of Storm's End help Connington take the castle itself?

Edited by Reyne, 04 August 2011 - 07:40 PM.

[The Floppy Fish]

I don't think Margaery will die, whatever the outcome of the trial. I just don't think Mace would allow his little girl to be executed, even if it meant alienating King's Landing and the High Septon. I think he'd easily be stupid enough to get his men to cut their way to her if necessary.

[Davos' Middle Finger]

Quote

The Strongs used to rule Harrenhal before the Lothstons. It seems they supported Rhaenyra in the Dance of the Dragons. Lord Strong was apparently Hand of the King, married to Rhaenyra and father of three sons with her who all perished in the fighting.

That can't be true, we know that Rhaenyra had two sons who survived the Dance of Dragons, the future Aegon III and Viserys II.

[Elric of Melnibone]

MinotaurWarrior, on 04 August 2011 - 04:49 PM, said:

Personally, I suspect the whole Reach will turn. Cersei has her ace in the whole for the trial, but Margery doesn't. If Mace tries to pardon her by royal decree, it simply will not work. This is the High Sparrow we're talking about. Margery is going to die, and Cersei will be Regent. Once she's back in power, she's going to completely antagonize the Tyrells until they decide to try and throw in their lot with a fourth king.

Agree with this 100%, King's Landing is going to be a complete madhouse

I agree with Randyll Tarly being a big figure here-- the guy is like a younger, mini Tywin Lannister and seems to be being built up as a major force

If he throws in with Aegon, things will get very interesting...

[Stallion That Mounts Texas]

Reyne, on 04 August 2011 - 07:39 PM, said:

True, but isn't Margaery's trial first, as she was accused before Cersei?

I may have missed something here, though.


I'm not sure what this has to do with each other. How would having a supporter outside of Storm's End help Connington take the castle itself?

I'm guessing that Connington will pose as a force loyal to Stannis and then feign to capture Lord Rowan and his men, getting Storm's End to open its gates.

[Stallion That Mounts Texas]

bens, on 04 August 2011 - 06:01 PM, said:

He's expressed more discomfort than the other Reach lords in the past about the murder of Elia and her children, and he hated Tywin Lannister's sense of "justice". Additionally, he and Mace Tyrell were sent off to besiege Storm's End, but he never came back, while Mace and all of the other Reach Lords (except the recluse Lord Hightower) have converged on King's Landing and begun ruling. He hasn't been seen on screen since Margaery and Tommen were wed and is not participating in the Small Council otherwise taken over by Reach Lords.

The very fact that he seems to be leading the siege at Storm's End, combined with Jon Connington's odd confidence in taking the castle, suggests that he's a supporter.

Interesting.  Guess I need to do a re-read.

[Kadence]

Reyne, on 04 August 2011 - 05:08 PM, said:

I expect Varys to try and make the Faith convict Margaery.

Margaery isn't going to die and I doubt there's a thing Varys could do about it, other than killing her himself.

How can Varys wield any influence over the High Septon? And the High Septon has indicated that he thinks very little of the charges against her.

The only person who can wield influence is Mace, with the army outside the gates. And I do not in any way see Mace allowing his little girl, the queen he's always dreamt of and his only tie to the Iron Throne, to die. I think if Margaery was about to die he'd unleash the power of Randyll MFing Tarly on whoever was threatening her, even the church.

Quote

But she still has the option of trial by combat with 'Robert Strong', after all (she's the queen, and he's a Kingsguard.)

I don't believe you can choose both a regular trial, *and* a trial by combat. You have to pick one or the other. Otherwise nobody would ever pick the trial by combat first, every single person accused of anything would choose regular trial first then use trial by combat as a backup plan.

[Twelve Angry Nonmen]

Davos, on 04 August 2011 - 08:12 PM, said:

That can't be true, we know that Rhaenyra had two sons who survived the Dance of Dragons, the future Aegon III and Viserys II.

They had half-brothers, if I recall.  Or maybe I'm imagining it. Rhaenyra remarried after her Targaryen husband died.

Edited by The Horns of Jurbgotterath, 04 August 2011 - 11:48 PM.

[Markus]

Davos, on 04 August 2011 - 08:12 PM, said:

That can't be true, we know that Rhaenyra had two sons who survived the Dance of Dragons,the future Aegon III and Viserys II.

After the death of Lyonel Strong Rhaenyra married again, some Targaryen. Aegon and Viserys were the sons of this second marriage. But the sons of her first marriage were all killed.

[RAAM]

Kadence, on 04 August 2011 - 11:08 PM, said:

Margaery isn't going to die and I doubt there's a thing Varys could do about it, other than killing her himself.

How can Varys wield any influence over the High Septon? And the High Septon has indicated that he thinks very little of the charges against her.

The only person who can wield influence is Mace, with the army outside the gates. And I do not in any way see Mace allowing his little girl, the queen he's always dreamt of and his only tie to the Iron Throne, to die. I think if Margaery was about to die he'd unleash the power of Randyll MFing Tarly on whoever was threatening her, even the church.

I don't believe you can choose both a regular trial, *and* a trial by combat. You have to pick one or the other. Otherwise nobody would ever pick the trial by combat first, every single person accused of anything would choose regular trial first then use trial by combat as a backup plan.

well, tyrion had a trial at KL and then demanded a trial by combat, so apparently you can pick both

Edited by RAAM, 05 August 2011 - 02:16 AM.

[Markus]

RAAM, on 05 August 2011 - 02:15 AM, said:

well, tyrion had a trial at KL and then demanded a trial by combat, so apparently you can pick both

Tyrion had a trial but not a verdict. I think the suggestion is that you can only demand a verdict of the gods when no official worldly verdict has been reached.

Edited by Markus, 05 August 2011 - 02:28 AM.