moon tea

[Aydia]

I know this is probably a spoiler for Dance but I've just about finished FFC and I'm wondering why Margery needs so much moon tea...or was the maester lying about making it for her so many times. For some reason I just find it hard to believe that Margery is stupid enough to be sleeping around.

[zmflavius]

I think most people assume that Pycelle was either lying to get Cersei off his back, or that Margaery was getting it for one of her cousins. One of them, IIRC, was betrothed to a squire, and may have been getting a bit friendly with said squire before the marriage.

[halftoe]

I have not read ADwD yet, but after everything that Cersei has done, and how many threats she's mde, even keeping the disgraceful Qyburn, I would not be suprised to learn that Maester Pycell might have played his own game all over Cersei. If he did, it was a perfect set up, especially when he is asked to examine the little queen, his response is very telling. IF HE DID IT. Also, the swiftness that he moves to take Tommen under control, he might not yet be broken???

[zmflavius]

I have not read ADwD yet, but after everything that Cersei has done, and how many threats she's mde, even keeping the disgraceful Qyburn, I would not be suprised to learn that Maester Pycell might have played his own game all over Cersei. If he did, it was a perfect set up, especially when he is asked to examine the little queen, his response is very telling. IF HE DID IT. Also, the swiftness that he moves to take Tommen under control, he might not yet be broken???

I think Pycelle isn't really competent enough to pull something like that off. Tyrion, though a very good player, effortlessly out-maneuvers him in ACOK, and Pycelle's first act of state is to ask Ser Kevan to return to KL.

[halftoe]

I think Pycelle isn't really competent enough to pull something like that off. Tyrion, though a very good player, effortlessly out-maneuvers him in ACOK, and Pycelle's first act of state is to ask Ser Kevan to return to KL.

I agree, if Pycelle's opponent were Tyrion. It's not, however, it's Cersei.

Cersei in not even a quarter as clever as the Imp. Her glamour is beauty and sex, the Imp is a much, much more formidable foe. I thnk someone of Cersei abilities would be about as much as Pycell could handle...bringing Ser Kevan back is some of the best news that the Kingdom could have in these times. He is a very able administrator with a tireless sense of duty. He might end up being the "rock" that the Lannisters end up re-building on, after they pay for their treacheries....

[Reposado]

hmm after my last reread of ASOS, I am more inclined to think she was getting it for herself, and the Cersei was accidentally right.

Someone says, Margery can keep her crown and her maidenhead, neither of which she wants.......

combine that with the info from pycelle, and i think it makes sense that she was hitting it with someone.

[zmflavius]

I agree, if Pycelle's opponent were Tyrion. It's not, however, it's Cersei.

Cersei in not even a quarter as clever as the Imp. Her glamour is beauty and sex, the Imp is a much, much more formidable foe. I thnk someone of Cersei abilities would be about as much as Pycell could handle...bringing Ser Kevan back is some of the best news that the Kingdom could have in these times. He is a very able administrator with a tireless sense of duty. He might end up being the "rock" that the Lannisters end up re-building on, after they pay for their treacheries....

I suppose this is true. But does Pycelle really have the political acumen to pull something like that off? His conversations with Ned show little except toadying to the Lannisters, and some feeble attempts to direct blame.

[halftoe]

I suppose this is true. But does Pycelle really have the political acumen to pull something like that off? His conversations with Ned show little except toadying to the Lannisters, and some feeble attempts to direct blame.

Under normal circumstances, I would think you are correct. But the Lord of House Lannister is dead, the Imp has fled and Jaime will not take the responsibility...so the Queen is in charge now.

Given that situation, I think Pycelle was totally desperate, willing to do anything to save hois own skin. Without the shrewd Lord Tywin or the clever Tyrion to check Her Grace's moves, Pycelle must have known time was short.

The Imp has already given him a taste of of the "Lannister Treatment". He knew it would only be a matter of time before the Queen turned on him, and I'm sure he has some kind of knowledge about what Qyburn was doing in the dungeons. Letting the Faith Militant rearm was probably his last straw, he must have been TERRIFIED for his life.

[Tammy]

Was it ever clarified in the books whether or not Margaery had "flowered" yet. I realize she most certainly had because she's 16 right? Is it possible that the moon tea was used to try to bring on something that hadn't yet, but should? I realize this is probably an impossible thought, but I'm trying to think what else moon tea could be used for seeing that she seems so well guarded as to not have encounters that would result in the need for moon tea.

[halftoe]

I've been thinking thaty maybe Pycel and the Tyrell girl are maybe setting Cersei up!!

[Lady Snark]

I think most people assume that Pycelle was either lying to get Cersei off his back, or that Margaery was getting it for one of her cousins. One of them, IIRC, was betrothed to a squire, and may have been getting a bit friendly with said squire before the marriage.

I didn't even think of that possibility; that Pycelle was out and out lying. That is a really interesting possibility. My guess was that she was getting the moon tea for one of her cousins and that it will be the "shy one" that Cersei/Kettleblack decided in their scheme would be the "innocent" one who knew about what they were doing and was horrified by it.

I just don't think Margaery would be that stupid to be messing around. She knows how dangerous the Lannisters are and I don't see her giving them that kind of ammunition. I think she is innocent and if she ends up losing her head due to Cersei's lies and the truth comes out, it will be all out war between the Tyrells (and all their allies) against the Lannisters. Which will be a shame if Tommen and/or Myrcelle end up dead due to Cersei, Tywin's and Jaime's dirty deeds.

[Viper89]

i think margaery proved that she is very much the queen of thorns granddaughter, especially with the way they got sansa on side very early on with everything to do with joffery. i would be very supprised if margaery was the one using the moon tea herself, i reckon that Pycelle just cracked easily from fear of whats happened to him with Tyrion and lets face it i think everyone that is in kings landings understands that Cersei is a bit of a loose cannon

[City granata]

But we should not forget that also the septas examined Margery and found her not virgin...

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[Tammy]

But we should not forget that also the septas examined Margery and found her not virgin...

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And we also should not forget that a very plausible alternative was raised in Cersei's chapter. The Tyrell girls and boys learn how to ride horses at a very young age and all are very well trained and ride them often. This can erupt the hymen, as Cersei thinks when the septas claim they examined her and found her not a virgin. She thinks, "Hope you enjoyed that horse ride" or something like that.

[City granata]

And we also should not forget that a very plausible alternative was raised in Cersei's chapter. The Tyrell girls and boys learn how to ride horses at a very young age and all are very well trained and ride them often. This can erupt the hymen, as Cersei thinks when the septas claim they examined her and found her not a virgin. She thinks, "Hope you enjoyed that horse ride" or something like that.

Good point

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[Queensmoot]

In the real world, some girls don't ever have a hymen, some break it with tampons, horse rides, random athletics, etc... It's a very thin bit of skin designed to break. A physical exam is in no way reliable.

That said, Martin could be going a number of directions with that information. She may not be a virgin; maybe Taena is right and she had slept with Renly. I doubt he was that... passionate... but she looks enough like Loras to pretend. :blushing: Maybe she has a lover, maybe she was getting the moon tea for a cousin. It's hard to say.

[needle_]

I've been thinking thaty maybe Pycel and the Tyrell girl are maybe setting Cersei up!!

This is what I thought when reading, but I think the Queen of Thorns is the mastermind

behind it. I also think Lady Taena(name?) is in cahoots w/ the Tyrells and helped to s/u

Cersei.

[lyvyathan]

I'm inclined to believe that its the Queen of Thorns and Margaery who are manipulating the situation for their own benefit.

If Margaery was indeed going to Pycelle to get moon tea to ward off pregnancy - she'd be a real fool. Better that she got one of her trusted maids to get the moon tea from one of the many maesters in K.L. Or get it brought over from Highgarden instead.

[Shaggydog Stark]

I'm inclined to believe that its the Queen of Thorns and Margaery who are manipulating the situation for their own benefit.

If Margaery was indeed going to Pycelle to get moon tea to ward off pregnancy - she'd be a real fool. Better that she got one of her trusted maids to get the moon tea from one of the many maesters in K.L. Or get it brought over from Highgarden instead.

I agree with this. I thought it was extremely stupid to ask Pycelle for the tea when these are the same people that pulled off the RW. Pycelle either lied or the Tyrells are playing another game.

[Weasel_Soup]

Imo, Pycelle lied about the Moon Tea or Margaery did not want it for herself. Margaery may or may not have had sex before but I find it hard to believe that she was some layabout whore. Margaery's grandmother is a sharp little thing and most likely would have warned her gandchild about the perils of being a wanton. There are also plausible reasons laid out in the book for Margaery lack of a Hymen. She actually did have sex with Renly on the night of there wedding or her Hymen was destroyed by riding a horse. I also believe Cersei is a character that does not percieve things correctly most of the time. She constantly over-values herself and people she favors while disdaining anybody she does not like. If Cersei think Margaery is some vapid little girl she is probably pretty close to the opposite of that imo.