Renly

[ladyriverrun]

I am with the chatper where

Renly gets killed by a shadow/ cloaked person

And I am really wondering who this person is. Personally, I think it's one of Stannis' men. I'll read on... I'm very curious though, so feel free to spoil ;)

[Slychd]

I am with the chatper where

Renly gets killed by a shadow/ cloaked person

And I am really wondering who this person is. Personally, I think it's one of Stannis' men. I'll read on... I'm very curious though, so feel free to spoil ;)

I had to think back to remember, but there is a part where you do find out who/what this shadow was.

[7V3N]

I am with the chatper where

Renly gets killed by a shadow/ cloaked person

And I am really wondering who this person is. Personally, I think it's one of Stannis' men. I'll read on... I'm very curious though, so feel free to spoil ;)

I'm on A Storm of Swords. I have a simple understanding of what it is and how it is created, but I am still truly lost as to what it really is. You will learn a bit more soon, but like I said, it will still be mysterious.

[cheplu]

Hello.

I am currently reading ACOK and I must say I'm a little disapointed about

Renly's death

... it just seems too easy.

I'm OK about alive dragons and even Bran's dreams but adding a major twist in the books plot with a magical shadow is not what I expected from ASoIaF... I love the books for their complex political plots and ever surprising characters and situations but I really hope that magic will not become too important in the next books...

[Slychd]

Hello.

I am currently reading ACOK and I must say I'm a little disapointed about

Renly's death

... it just seems too easy.

I'm OK about alive dragons and even Bran's dreams but adding a major twist in the books plot with a magical shadow is not what I expected from ASoIaF... I love the books for their complex political plots and ever surprising characters and situations but I really hope that magic will not become too important in the next books...

Magic does exist in the books, but it never common place.

Spoiler for some part of Clash of Kings, I can't remember which part, second half I believe.

You find out that when the last dragons died the magic stopped working so well.

[Tammy]

I am with the chatper where

Renly gets killed by a shadow/ cloaked person

And I am really wondering who this person is. Personally, I think it's one of Stannis' men. I'll read on... I'm very curious though, so feel free to spoil ;)

There's a Davos chapter where you will see the shadow again, but it's not made clear what it is or how it is created.

In the visions Dany got in the house of the undying, she saw a blue-eyed king who had no shadow. And in Catelyn's chapter she describes the shadow as being Stannis, so I think it's pretty clear that it is Stannis' shadow, but he doesn't seem to be aware of it and it hasn't been explained yet how Melisandre got it.

[The late lady stark]

Hello.

I am currently reading ACOK and I must say I'm a little disapointed about

Renly's death

... it just seems too easy.

I'm OK about alive dragons and even Bran's dreams but adding a major twist in the books plot with a magical shadow is not what I expected from ASoIaF... I love the books for their complex political plots and ever surprising characters and situations but I really hope that magic will not become too important in the next books...

Yeah, honestly the whole weird

live birthing of an on-demand shadow

was a bit over the top. But hey, it was original.

[Silmarien]

If you really want to know....

It has to do with Melisandre.

By sleeping with Stannis, Melisandre (a shadowbinder AND Red Priestess) is able to create and bind shadows to her will, and with one of these shadows, she offs Renly. Stannis claims later to not have had any part in his brother's death, but I think he's in denial. Mel likely didn't tell him how Renly came to die via her shadow magic.

[HaraktheHirsute]

By sleeping with Stannis, Melisandre (a shadowbinder AND Red Priestess) is able to create and bind shadows to her will, and with one of these shadows, she offs Renly. Stannis claims later to not have had any part in his brother's death, but I think he's in denial. Mel likely didn't tell him how Renly came to die via her shadow magic.

I think so, too.

Incidentally, I don't mind magic in the series. It's a fantasy series, after all.

[Gurthnar]

I was also a little bit disappointed by how easy it was...

Renly: I am going to storm your walls with my army and slay you.

Stannis: We will see.

*later*

Stannis creeps in to Renly's own tent, as a shadow, invisible, invincible, stabbing him to death.

WTF? That must have cost a lot of mana...

I hate Melisandre mostly for appearing to be over the top with magic. I hope it will turn out as a wrong impression.

[Bahlrokhin]

I think Renly was gay. A couple things hint to it in Catelyn's chapters

[Blazfemur]

Hello.

I am currently reading ACOK and I must say I'm a little disapointed about

Renly's death

... it just seems too easy.

I'm OK about alive dragons and even Bran's dreams but adding a major twist in the books plot with a magical shadow is not what I expected from ASoIaF... I love the books for their complex political plots and ever surprising characters and situations but I really hope that magic will not become too important in the next books...

It's there, but it's done tastefully, it's not like martin goes into spellcasting at will and hurling mystical lightning at enemies. it's done well.

[djb299]

Perhaps it was fitting considering Renly's naive attitude towards the war; his lack of knowledge about the horrors of war/conflict and the things that come with them (i.e. the shadow) were his downfall.

I know that's not how it was birthed, but the whole thing seems somewhat allegorical.

[Stan the Man Baratheon]

Perhaps it was fitting considering Renly's naive attitude towards the war; his lack of knowledge about the horrors of war/conflict and the things that come with them (i.e. the shadow) were his downfall.

I know that's not how it was birthed, but the whole thing seems somewhat allegorical.

Yes, Renly knew little about implications of War. It was fun for him.

[Ko Rakharo]

Renly was my favourite king, but yeah, I guess it's all about feeling and thinking. He was a good and funny person, but too innocent for war. People tell me I'm irresponsible, naive, inconsequential all the time so it's psychologically natural that I would identify to him without thinking about his downsides. Now, it seems Stannis (the rightful king, after all) is the "righter" one. His sense of justice could boil down to egoism, though; he's the one needing justice now, but what about when others need to be justified?

Melisandre is one character I hate. She may have some deep and obscure Asshai'i powers but I think she believes it's all thanks to her faith in the Red God; whether it's good or bad for the osnarrative? It's a thing. Davos represents all Stannis' men's feelings regarding the religious shift - was it necessary, good, fair, or even worthy? They all feel like it's a suspicious and somewhat uncontrollable power, and with reason. I'd like to see the attitude of another Red Priest, like Thoros (he's alive, isn't he?), and people's reactions to him.

Whether her powers relate or not to her faith is debatable; I think they don't: Asshai'i people are known to study obscure arts, as Ser Jorah and the Dothraki say, and there are no legends or hoaxes about Thoros being a dark mage or anything. However, Melisandre believes R'hllor and the magic relate, or at least tries to make people believe she believes it.

~p. 150 in aCoK

Somewhere, I think around page 150 in aCoK, Stannis tells Davos he doesn't believe in any gods, but is interested in all power Melisandre could bestow.

Whether this stuff was over the top is a matter of what each reader expected of the novels; I got surprised - aGoT has only about half as much magic as aCoK, but seeing as the dragons were born in the last chapter of the first book it's +1 for the "dragons bring magic" theory.

end of aCoK:

I was really mad that Davos had no thoughts about Melisandre in his last chapter in aCoK. I mean, did you see what the hell happened in front of you? How can you not wonder about those powers when you're out at war?

...maybe he's just a good soldier who keeps his mind in the battle. I wouldn't think so, though, having a smuggler's heart and thinking about the failure of the attack every damn second in his last chapter.