King Doug, on 19 April 2012 - 06:57 PM, said:
I agree there are more fighting men in the North, I'm mostly playing devil's advocate. But to say that Stannis being able to quickly get 4000 men from the mountain clans is not that solid of an argument. Like I said before, they are a culture that values fighting prowess and most men are likely warriors. They are also probably concentrated into a few villages in the few areas of the moutains that are habitable.
Around 20,000 more fighting men...maybe. But Bolton's army includes the number of Freys. I know the Manderlys still have a good force. But we have no reason to believe Skagos has that many men, nor do we have any reason to believe they don't have more. If you count the wildlings then yes, they will have at least 20,000.
With that said, we are led to believe that Robb brought a large portion of the fighting force with him. We are never given any clue that Stannis or Roose might be able to summon another 20,000+ on a whim. Not only that, We know that Roose Bolton is quite smart. If there truly was another army capable of being raised to oppose him.
Let's be generous and say Manderly has 10,000 men just chillin. There is only one other house that we know has left some men behind (the lady that says she hates the Starks, can't remember which one...Dustin maybe?). But the rest of the houses most likely are just about exhausted. We know the Umbers and Karstarks are just about out of men. Same with the Cerwyns, Glovers, Talharts. The only real question mark is the Reeds. We don't know how many men they have and if they will commit (I believe they will).
A lot of question marks in the remaining forces and I think that to say the North could field an army of 40,000 (including Robb's army) is a bit of a stretch. We know that the Reach has the biggest population because it is in the most fertile lands. And we know that the westerlands are the second most populous. After those two there is a pretty significant difference. Next most populous would be the Riverlands, followed by the Stormlands and North, with Iron Islands and Dorne having the lowest populations.
Tywin was able to have a force of 30,000. And that was with in the West where it would be able to call the banners quickly. Also Jaime commanding 20,000+, and the other army of 20,000 that was decimated by Robb. Thats 70,000+.
Renly claimed he had 100,000 men, likely a bit of a fabrication but we'll assume he was telling the truth.
During Robert's rebellion, the Dornish only mustered a force of 10,000 to aid the Iron Throne. Elia was being held captive by Aerys and it is clear they loved Elia so they would have wanted to protect her. Maybe that is all they could muster...
After the North playing a HUGE role in Robert's rebellion, and also in the Greyjoy rebellion. I think their total fighting force would be roughly 40,000. MAX
Yes, your Lannister numbers are way off.
1. Tywins host had 20,000
2. Jaime's host had 15,000
3. Stafford's host at Oxcross numbered 10,000
Lannisters have fielded a total of 45,000 men roughly. As expected, the Tyrells have fielded the most men at about 70,000 thus far. And that s not counting the full strength of the Hightowers.
I agree with Ghost also that Dorne can field men closer to 50,000 than not. If not 50,000 then it would be at least 35,000-40,000. They only sent 10,000 to the Trident in haste to join Rhaegar, but surely could have fought on if need be. Additionally, they have two armies that have been ready to go for four book now (one in the Prince's Pass and another on the Boneway). Having not been touched by the war, the Dornish are poised to do major damage.
Skagos is bigger than the Iron Islands combined and it is universally agreed that the Greyjoy's can field 20,000 to 25,000 men. Skagos has not been touched by war since they rebelled against the King in North hundreds of years ago. It stands to reason that they can field a force of at least 5,000 and could be as high as 10,000 (more likely 5,000-6,000) I suppose.
The Frey's sent 2,000 men North to augment Roose Bolton's forces (likely around 4,000). Throw in Ramsay's 600 along with the Dustin's and Ryswells, and Roose's host is likely as high as 10,000. Throw in the other Northern Houses of shaky loyalty and it could be higher. The Rills and the Barrowlands are large areas of the North and situated next to the coast. This denotes high population areas (especially Barrowtown). Stannis has 5,000 men (about 3,500 or so are Northmen). As Ghost said we have not even begun to breakdown the Manderly forces. He has the only city in the North and controls a good portion of the North in his corner (like a poor man's House Hightower). Many Northerners have likely fled to White Harbor to survive the war and the coming winter. Lord Manderly has 50 plus war ships, a dozen petty lords, 100 landed knights, a vault of silver, more heavy horse than any lord North of the Neck and control over other noble of the North. This man has been preparing to retake the North for a long time and is poised to do serious damage. Finally, the Neck Houses (crannogmen) have not been touched by the war. They have played guerilla warfare with ironmen but no more. All of those houses can add at least another 2-3,000.
When you look at the facts and do some of the math, the North can easily field another 25,000 to 30,000 men at least. Even GRRM has confirmed that the North is far from being spent (meaning the North has some major ass to kick before all is said and done).
Edited by Stallion That Mounts Texas, 19 April 2012 - 09:52 PM.