37 replies to this topic

[ForgottenFace]

Dragons Dancing, on 16 August 2011 - 04:22 PM, said:

Bran has blue eyes. Does this make him winter's child?

That reminded me of Old Nan calling him "My sweet Summer child".  

On a totally unrelated note, just noticed that Brandon and Brynden are really similar names, phonetically.  

[Narea]

Bran does come off as becoming darker as time goes, doesn't he ?
In the begining, we have him liking scary stories about winter and white-walkers, later he begins to distance himself from other people, in ASOS he accidentaly wargs Hodor (which I can forgive as it was an accident), and then in ADWD he not only regularly wargs Hodor, he also eats human flesh as Summer and lets face it...there is no way he believed Coldhands about finding a sow...
I don't get how people can just wave off any concerns about warging Hodor just because he is "simple" and he does not know about "Warging Ethics". I mean he is taking away Hodor's free will and his control over his own body, he even knows that Hodor is scared out of his mind and he still keeps doing it. I hate to draw this parallel, but in HP Imperius is one the Unforgivables and noone needs explaining why taking away someone's control over their actions is bad.

So yes, Bran with his inclinations towards what people consider immoral, is becoming a true child of winter.

I also wouldn't put it past the CoF to actually be in league with the Others seeing as not only is a wight Bran's guide to the CoF, it's also wights that keep him and others with him from leaving. I'm pretty sure the CoF are using the Others as well as Bran as instruments of their revenge on Men.
Someone already said that Others can't be of same race as the CoF because their stature is too different, but are we absolutely sure that it's one of the Others that Sam slayed ?

[the average Other]

That's really creepy stuff, Narea, but good points.

On top of all that the wildlings talk about the Others like they're some kind of nature spirits. They're always watching even when they aren't visible, they just materialize out of nowhere, they're basically the same as cold and snow, etc. (By the way, did anybody else think that Wun Wun kept stopping to shake snow from the branches above his head because he didn't want to walk under snow because he thought it might turn into Others at any moment?) At the same time we learn that the Seers of the Children become the nature, that their consciousness is in the trees and the animals. And then there were Bran's musings about the Children, that they just sing sad songs where humans would fight and want vengeance. What I suppose I'm getting at is that it seems to me that the Others could be the spirits of the Seers who have gone bad and decided to take their vengeance.

[NoOne]

Narea, on 17 August 2011 - 02:44 AM, said:

Bran does come off as becoming darker as time goes, doesn't he ?
In the begining, we have him liking scary stories about winter and white-walkers, later he begins to distance himself from other people, in ASOS he accidentaly wargs Hodor (which I can forgive as it was an accident), and then in ADWD he not only regularly wargs Hodor, he also eats human flesh as Summer and lets face it...there is no way he believed Coldhands about finding a sow...
I don't get how people can just wave off any concerns about warging Hodor just because he is "simple" and he does not know about "Warging Ethics". I mean he is taking away Hodor's free will and his control over his own body, he even knows that Hodor is scared out of his mind and he still keeps doing it. I hate to draw this parallel, but in HP Imperius is one the Unforgivables and noone needs explaining why taking away someone's control over their actions is bad.

So yes, Bran with his inclinations towards what people consider immoral, is becoming a true child of winter.

I also wouldn't put it past the CoF to actually be in league with the Others seeing as not only is a wight Bran's guide to the CoF, it's also wights that keep him and others with him from leaving. I'm pretty sure the CoF are using the Others as well as Bran as instruments of their revenge on Men.
Someone already said that Others can't be of same race as the CoF because their stature is too different, but are we absolutely sure that it's one of the Others that Sam slayed ?

Yes, I like your thinking on this. In league with or in control of the Others?? Mayhaps the Others are the foot soldiers of the CoF? The wights "keeping guard" outside the cave perhaps, Jojen's general misery and Coldhands as the courier are giving me pause as to the real agenda of the CoF.
I'm thinking that the singers are not quite what they seem. Bran is losing his innocence, the  Hodor warging etc. is more than a little off and so is Brynden and his plans for Bran.
Could it be that they are the evil, not the good in this story?

[Jon Snow - The Promised]

Amir, on 16 August 2011 - 03:34 PM, said:

http://asoiaf.wester...13#entry2628513

aye

its also worth mentioning that:
1. Melisandre has red eyes
2. The naath has gold eyes ( Missandei's  pepole)
The Naath believe in one god, the Lord of Harmony, who has existed and will exist for all time. He is the source of creation.
sounds like the old gods to me and even more after looking at that sentence by Leaf when those who have the gift dont tend to live long since the world needs balance.

Interesting... Well, the Stark words being "Winter is Coming" and Winter throughout the series is connected with morbidity and dark forces, surely the polar opposite of winter is Summer -
and so if Winter/Evil is represented by blue and Summer/Good represented by gold, and Missandei's people have gold eyes then the god of the Naath is the god of Summer. Because in the long summer, Peace & Harmony can truly  be found?

Edited by Jon Snow - The Promised, 17 August 2011 - 09:53 AM.

[Zax Snow]

Hey everybody first post. Wanted to comment on this because I find the CotF fascinating. What if the winter color isn't blue but grey? It's is stated many times in aGoT that Jon has grey eyes. And many people believe him to be AA. Maybe the Old Gods have an AA equivalent who had grey eyes? Feel free to poke holes in my theory

[Dio Forel]

Dragons Dancing, on 16 August 2011 - 04:22 PM, said:

Bran has blue eyes. Does this make him winter's child?

Winter chooses well.

[the Water Dancer]

WOW. Im awed by that possibility!  good thinking mt.thatrides. that would actually make a lot of sense.

[TheMtThatRides...Your Mom]

Bump because of all the new posts in the Wall and Heresy thread

[hotweaselsoup]

merchantkingpriest, on 15 August 2011 - 03:09 PM, said:

Very interesting theory, it could be that the eyes do signify the seasons with blue obviously being winter.  btw do you know the color of shaggydog's eyes?  Ghost's eyes are red, IIRC summer's are gold, if shaggy's are green that could signify something as well

Red and green are complementary colors -opposites on the color wheel - which makes Ghost, with his red eyes and white coat, the chromatic opposite of Shaggy with his black coat and green eyes.  Personality-wise, the two wolves also seem at opposite ends of the spectrum:  Ghost is silent and reserved; Shaggy is all noise and ferocity.

Purple and Yellow are also complementary colors.  Targaryen eyes vs. CotF eyes?

The physical description of the White Walkers as tall and gaunt, with chalk-white skin, calls to mind the Milk Men of Qarth.

[The Hi Lord]

hotweaselsoup, on 06 December 2011 - 06:29 PM, said:

Red and green are complementary colors -opposites on the color wheel - which makes Ghost, with his red eyes and white coat, the chromatic opposite of Shaggy with his black coat and green eyes.  Personality-wise, the two wolves also seem at opposite ends of the spectrum:  Ghost is silent and reserved; Shaggy is all noise and ferocity.

Purple and Yellow are also complementary colors.  Targaryen eyes vs. CotF eyes?

The physical description of the White Walkers as tall and gaunt, with chalk-white skin, calls to mind the Milk Men of Qarth.

I believe all of the direwolves are inhabited by the spirits of the children of  the forest and Shaggydog and Ghost are the super gifted ones of the bunch. I don't think it is an eye pattern at all. Brynden or Leaf said either green or red and the regulars ones were just yellow. All the wolves eyes are yellow except for the black and white ones. It also might be why the direwolves are more intelligent than most creatures.

[hiraeth]

Narea, on 17 August 2011 - 02:44 AM, said:

Bran does come off as becoming darker as time goes, doesn't he ?
In the begining, we have him liking scary stories about winter and white-walkers, later he begins to distance himself from other people, in ASOS he accidentaly wargs Hodor (which I can forgive as it was an accident), and then in ADWD he not only regularly wargs Hodor, he also eats human flesh as Summer and lets face it...there is no way he believed Coldhands about finding a sow...
I don't get how people can just wave off any concerns about warging Hodor just because he is "simple" and he does not know about "Warging Ethics". I mean he is taking away Hodor's free will and his control over his own body, he even knows that Hodor is scared out of his mind and he still keeps doing it. I hate to draw this parallel, but in HP Imperius is one the Unforgivables and noone needs explaining why taking away someone's control over their actions is bad.

So yes, Bran with his inclinations towards what people consider immoral, is becoming a true child of winter.

I also wouldn't put it past the CoF to actually be in league with the Others seeing as not only is a wight Bran's guide to the CoF, it's also wights that keep him and others with him from leaving. I'm pretty sure the CoF are using the Others as well as Bran as instruments of their revenge on Men.
Someone already said that Others can't be of same race as the CoF because their stature is too different, but are we absolutely sure that it's one of the Others that Sam slayed ?

As many others, Bran is only doing what is necessary to survive... This is not some dreamy fantasy novel, where everything is black and white... IMHO, Bran needs to undergo a true ordeal to become stronger and more mature and to become what is closest to a hero in Martin's world. Stark children, and Bran in particular, are going through some serious hardships their counterparts in the Westerosi world are protected from, but their darker education will only serve to make them better people... More realistic, darker, more practical, more ruthless, but, in the end, good people.... The times are tough, and they will get tougher... But look at Ramsey Bolton and Joffrey, for example... They are purely evil... Bran has never been sadistic - even if he uses Hodor against his will, he is doing so because he does not have moral guidance of an adult... But the Stark upbringing will steer him in the right direction. He's just a disabled kid in a nightmarish world... Many of us did things that were wrong when we were children, that's a normal part of growing up...

[JJtheCrow]

Not to mention the fact that Bran probably saved lives by warging Hodor.

[Winter's Breath]

I cant imagine the CothF being evil. They are the singers of life, and their magic is to heal and grow. the others are death and killing, and the dead zombies and stuff. How could they be on the same side? And Bloodraven is not evil. Why would the singers let him live with them, let alone lead them like it seams if he was good and they were evil? And lastly, I doubt Bran is growing into a dark winter child. He may be growing stronger from doing a bad thing ocasinally, (although I am not intirarly against him warging Hodar) but that does not bake him bad. And he is explisetly stated to being a summer child, by old nan, his wolf's name is summer, how could he be really standing for winter? The only stark child I can say with confidnece is becoming this dark being is Ayra. She has the dark hear rememmber? everyone else, and I think ayra in the end too, will end up saving the world from death, not helping winter spread.

[Ser Leftwich]

"Oh, my sweet summer child," Old Nan said quietly, "what do you know of fear?"

Bran was born and lived his whole life during the current summer.  This is similar to the "knight of summer" that Catelyn talks about when visiting Renly's camp.  Green boys who just want a taste of war because they were to young for Robert's Rebellion or the Greyjoy war. It doesn't seem like there is much in that line from Old Nan.


On another topic,  Jon and Rickon clearly have some connection to Ghost and Shaggydog, respectively, we do not know how much they can control the warging they do into the direwolves, but we the ability is there.

What if Ghost is a greenseer and Shaggydog is a greendreamer?
What if Ghost and Shaggydog have greenseer and greendreaming powers the same as the CotF, according to eye color?

[The Red Pope]

Winter, on 11 December 2012 - 03:02 PM, said:

I cant imagine the CothF being evil. They are the singers of life, and their magic is to heal and grow. the others are death and killing, and the dead zombies and stuff. How could they be on the same side? And Bloodraven is not evil. Why would the singers let him live with them, let alone lead them like it seams if he was good and they were evil? And lastly, I doubt Bran is growing into a dark winter child. He may be growing stronger from doing a bad thing ocasinally, (although I am not intirarly against him warging Hodar) but that does not bake him bad. And he is explisetly stated to being a summer child, by old nan, his wolf's name is summer, how could he be really standing for winter? The only stark child I can say with confidnece is becoming this dark being is Ayra. She has the dark hear rememmber? everyone else, and I think ayra in the end too, will end up saving the world from death, not helping winter spread.

The COTF has been depicted a lot like the elves of LOTR, macical, nature bound, morally superior, and utterly good but I have sensed that there is a darker side to them ever since they appeared alive. They certainly have some interesting interaction with the Others, otherwise they would have fled south as even the Giants and the wildlive did.

[Bluesnow]

Zax Snow, on 17 August 2011 - 10:34 AM, said:

Hey everybody first post. Wanted to comment on this because I find the CotF fascinating. What if the winter color isn't blue but grey? It's is stated many times in aGoT that Jon has grey eyes.

Thats my thought as well...
Besides the grey eyes... grey in general has been used to describe much of the winter landscape... the grey look of ice, grey overcast skies bringing snow... not to mention Stark Colors are Grey/white... and they were the kings of winter o.o

[Frey Buffet]

I'm quite excited to see what GRRM has in store for Rickon and Shaggydog after reading this thread. Seems they could be very important characters for the magic side of the story,  not just for the Northern politics/revenge plot.