86 replies to this topic

[Ampersand]

kg1982, on 20 August 2011 - 11:12 PM, said:

The culmination of the Jon arc I think involves him learning from Reed about Lyanna and Rhaegar and that he really is the true heir, not a bastard.  And then ultimately rejecting it despite the fact that it was all that 14 year old Jon ever wanted.

Lord Almighty, I hope this is what happens. It's making me tear up with how sweet and perfect it is.

[Ampersand]

longlivestark, on 20 August 2011 - 08:47 PM, said:

Can't, another author already wrote that story.

What story is that?

[Alyssane]

Doesn't the appearance of the direwolf pups suckling from their dead mother who was killed by a stag antler through the jaw affirm some sort of higher being somewhere regardless of whether that is R'hllor or the Old Gods or the Seven or the Drowned God.

[Lord Garth Formerly Izar]

Jon = Highlander

[NOc]

Kennit, on 18 August 2011 - 08:19 AM, said:

I always thought that "A Song of Ice and Fire" is a nod towards the impending war between Rhellor and the Others.
That's what the books are about, no?

That could be, but R'hllor wasn't even brought up in the first book, so I doubt that's the true meaning of the series.

[Clash]

A song of Ice and Fire could mean either Ice and Fire at war with each other, or Ice and Fire together battling some other entity. From the very start of the books, the others are introduced as the enemy of all the people of Westeros, and so could be the Ice of the song. Fire can only mean the dragons - again introduced very early in the story. Many take Ice to mean Jon and there are echoes of this in the name of the Stark sword but it's less clearcut than the dragons metaphor.

Fire as metaphor for R'hllor seems a bit of a stretch. Although Melisandre sees her visions in fires and followers of R'hllor seem to have a need for fires to burn at all times, he's referred to by them as the Lord of light rather than fire. Even the sword is called Lightbringer.

[taurunum dire cat]

I had same idea of Jon might end up as Night King.There are a lot of simillarities in storys:

Pale,cold woman,human secrefices...

It is mencenend often how Melisandres skin is very pale,and despite her love for fire obsesion and wormth of her skin her personaliti is realy very cold.
And she made human secrefice right there under the wall.

But,it was not Jon that brings her to the Wall and make shadow-babyes with her,and let her give man to fire
It was Stanis

Now there definitly is Jons responcebility as Lord Comander in what ever Melisandre is done but I dont think that NW man did not realy minde any of that as much as they minde Wildelings in theyr lines.

Wildelings seam to be more for Jon than his own man of NW so I think that,if he is alive,he will be leading them.

Edited by taurunum dire cat, 24 August 2011 - 04:24 AM.

[Bastard of Godsgrace]

NOc, on 24 August 2011 - 03:32 AM, said:

That could be, but R'hllor wasn't even brought up in the first book, so I doubt that's the true meaning of the series.

Actually, Lord of Light is mentioned in Dany chapters in AGOT, and red priests and their nightfires as well. Only the name R'hllor isn't used.

Edited by Bastard of Godsgrace, 24 August 2011 - 04:51 AM.

[winterschild]

I really hope he is not dead. All the Stark children ( not rickkon) seem to be blind, they are not so smart.

[Draxus]

Kennit, on 18 August 2011 - 08:19 AM, said:

I always thought that "A Song of Ice and Fire" is a nod towards the impending war between Rhellor and the Others.
That's what the books are about, no?

imho Fire represents AAR and Ice represents the Great Other.

[jon stark I]

I don't think old gods demand human sacrifice because they gave house Stark a clear sign in the beginnig and if I remember correctly Starks don't make human sacrifices.The sign I am talking about is the dead direwolf and elk thing.The elk was dead and while trying to eat it direwolf died with its horns which I think refers that Robert died and while tryingg to give the throne to Stannis , Eddard died by Roberts horns or as people call him Joff.So I don't think Jon would end up being Night King he is to proud and clever for that.All that sacrifice in North is made by people who think they must make extreme things to make peace wth old gods .

[WakeTheDragon]

Can't let go of Jon eh? What if he's just flat out dead?

Edited by WakeTheDragon, 03 December 2012 - 05:09 PM.

[Black Crow]

WakeTheDragon, on 03 December 2012 - 05:09 PM, said:

Can't let go of Jon eh? What if he's just flat out dead?

Not according to GRRM: "oh, you think he's dead do you?"

[Moonfox]

His direwolf is named "Ghost" for a reason. Also what was that prolouge for if not to show us some extent to a warg's powers and spells out exactly what happends when one dies?

[hiraeth]

jon stark I, on 15 November 2012 - 05:42 PM, said:

I don't think old gods demand human sacrifice because they gave house Stark a clear sign in the beginnig and if I remember correctly Starks don't make human sacrifices.The sign I am talking about is the dead direwolf and elk thing.The elk was dead and while trying to eat it direwolf died with its horns which I think refers that Robert died and while tryingg to give the throne to Stannis , Eddard died by Roberts horns or as people call him Joff.So I don't think Jon would end up being Night King he is to proud and clever for that.All that sacrifice in North is made by people who think they must make extreme things to make peace wth old gods .

Robert's death brought death to the parents, but the wolf pups survived... Meaning, Robert led Ned to death, and the wolf pups were there helpless, with noone to protect them until the Stark children took them in... So, I think that Jon is going to play an important role, but not a common one, his destiny will be different from the destiny of other Stark children (by Stark I mean, both Ned and Lyanna), but he will not end up as being Night King - he can control his passions - even Ygritte was not enough to make him completely abandon his vows...

[addicted to snow]

I don't think that Jon's character will adhere to the same Moral Code, Ethics, or Honor that have defined his character thus far... Jon will mix with his wolf while he is residing in Ghost, and the result will be a more abrasive, aggressive, and brutal Jon... Jon has some dark roads to follow & I feel he will commit a number of 'abominations' along the way... He'll kill a lot of people - both deserving & innocent. Many will be women & children. Where Varamyr-6-Skins stole the bodies of animals, Jon will steal & collect the bodes of men...

GRRM loves to give readers a certain perception of a given character & then flip that perception on its head... I'm not sure if GRRM is turning Jon into a total Bad-Guy, or a Good-Guy with some major issues. He appears to be doing the opposite with Jamie Lannister...

Assuming that Jon remains a good-guy (who's gifts not only make him powerful, but also dangerous) then I think in the end, after he has saved the 7-kingdoms & entrusted them to Tyrion for safekeeping, Arya will stick him with the pointy-end & give Jon the gift of the Many-Faced-God.

[Rhoynar]

What if Jon wargs Ghost before he dies and then Melisandre revives Jon's soulless body?

Edited by Rhoynar, 11 December 2012 - 06:08 AM.

[DarkStark]

I honestly think the Old Gods + the Others are going to have something to do with Jon's revival.

[Black Crow]

Rhoynar, on 11 December 2012 - 06:07 AM, said:

What if Jon wargs Ghost before he dies and then Melisandre revives Jon's soulless body?

Not without the spirit she can't, because if he's not at home he can't be wakened.

[lozeldatkm]

kg1982, on 20 August 2011 - 11:12 PM, said:

The culmination of the Jon arc I think involves him learning from Reed about Lyanna and Rhaegar and that he really is the true heir, not a bastard.  And then ultimately rejecting it despite the fact that it was all that 14 year old Jon ever wanted.

Lyanna and Rhaegar never married.... right? Not as far as we know. Even if R+L=J is proven, he'd still be a bastard.