Drogon's size

[Miriamele]

Maybe they work with some kind of inherent fuel, that's why they breathe fire?

[StarkofWinterfell]

You are right in that the physics doesn't work.

However, pretty much never in fantasy has a dragon been portrayed with dimensions that would work with physics. Anyone expecting that is being unrealistic. Besides, we know that Dragons are directly tied to magic in the world, as magic waned when they died, and is coming back with the return of dragons. So in my mind, the most important factor is that the dragons 'look' right, meaning they have dimensions that look good to the human eye (and not necessarily in line with physics). So in that case, there is probably a range, though not incredibly large, of ratios between length, width, and height. That means most dragons will have roughly the same proportions even if they differ in size, so the cubing to determine ratios is probably a decent rule of thumb.

I don't care if they look good but can't realistically fly.

I will take whatever body type that can realistically fly.

[StarkofWinterfell]

This article proves that a large reptile can achieve flight.

Scientists found this pterosaur with a wingspan of 18m (59 feet)!!!!!

That is the size of the Gundam statue in Japan!!

Wow! A dragon can definitely achieve that size.

http://m.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.php?c_id=2&objectid=10344848

[Marcus of the South]

Then you'll get something like a pteranodon or bird with wings much larger than its body, hollow bones and a big wing area to body mass ratio. The biggest pterosaur, Quetzalcoatlus, was about 35 feet wingspan and somewhere around 450 pounds, or maybe as low as 200 (and it's not even known for sure if that could fly).

Edit based on previous post: the first estimates of Quetzalcoatlus were at 16m. Closer later study put it as 11-12.

[schpat]

The point is, at this rate, Daeny's dragons will need another 10 years at least before they approach a size that will allow her to invade Westeros like Aegon the Conqueror did.

So we can expect Daeny to arrive in Westeros when the next summer arrives.

We don't know exactly at what rate dragons grow, but we do know that they never stop growing. Bearing that in mind, GRRM has to make sure that they don't grow too quickly or else their size could become problematic really quickly. Drogon seemed to struggle carrying Dany the first time, but as long as he keeps eating and being free of dungeons he should progress at a reasonable rate. Give it a few month or another year.

There is no need to assume linear growth rates for dragons.

[Fearsome Fred]

There is no need to assume linear growth rates for dragons.

Right. The rate that they grow depends upon the number of maidens they devour.

[Fire Eater]

Here's an illustration of a Quetzalcoatlus from National Geographic and another

[Urien the Ragged]

one moment he's 10 feet tall and the next his foot is the size of a lake

[Fearsome Fred]

You do have a point there about the unreliable narrator. However now when I think back on the physics on it, it wouldn't work that way. In real life, since the weight is cubed whiile the wingspan is only doubled, 5 feet of extra wingspan would never be able to support another 100 % of mass.

Of course, this is a fantasy series. However since the dragons are not written as particularly magical apart from the fire breath (eg: they can't talk, do magic spells or shapeshift), I find a discussion on their aerodynamical properties and size quite interesting.

My solution has always been that Dragons have a limited levitation ability, that can reduce their weight, but not actually lift themselves via levitation without additional help from their wings.

[Ibbison from Ibben]

Dany's dragons may never come anywhere close to Aegon I's in air-to-ground capabilities against humans in these books, but they probably won't have to be that big to succeed against beings that are inherently hyper-vulnerable to fire. Not to mention how useful a dragon that is only minimally capable of carring a rider would be for recon missions.

[noobilly]

My solution has always been that Dragons have a limited levitation ability, that can reduce their weight, but not actually lift themselves via levitation without additional help from their wings.

Maybe they have hydrogen inside which helps lift them?

[noobilly]

My solution has always been that Dragons have a limited levitation ability, that can reduce their weight, but not actually lift themselves via levitation without additional help from their wings.

Maybe they have hydrogen inside which helps lift them?

[Selmy]

We know when Drogon was born, and he has been a 'free range dragon' since that time, and we kind of know how big he was at the end of ADwD , he seems to have regular chow, so can't we figure out the rate from the novels?

Someone with a better sense of time lapse will have too fill in here, cause from George all I can estimate is something like two years, which always seemed a bit short for all that been going on.

(If he starts eating horses he's gonna blow up like a blimp.)

We don't know if dragons have standard growth rates. Is there a dragon puberty? We just don't know enough.

[Alyssane]

Also, how does this whole genderless thing work. Are they all both genders or neither? Do they reproduce asexually, and if so, how is there such a variation? Someone, perhaps Tyrion, needs to just sit down and give us the low down on dragons

[NRWayne]

I don't care if they look good but can't realistically fly.

I will take whatever body type that can realistically fly.

"DRACARIS!", Daenerys shouted, as the great black dragon crested the hill, suddenly darkening the massed Lannister forces below with his terrible shadow. Far below, men the size of ants scattered and ran for their lives, oaths and allegiances forgotten in the moment when Drogon pierced the air with his scrotumtightening scream. The cry of a predator come upon his unsuspecting prize just at the moment of its greatest vulnerability.

Unfortunately, Dany, having rounded the field to establish just that element of surprise, was now flying in the face of a gentle prevailing breeze, and as Drogon reared and spat the first great gout of boiling flame, the superheated air lifted dragon and rider high into the clear morning sky. Tossed by the cool seaside zephyr like a ribbon from a maiden's hair, the dragon, with his brittle hollow bones, tiny torso and enormous papery wings, was powerless to alter his course as the Breaker of Chains implored him to attack. "Dracaris, dracaris," she pleaded, but by then the lilting current had puffed them in range of the catapults of King's Landing. A rain of stones tore the frail balsa-wood dragon apart even where he floated and bobbed like a child's toy upon the Long Lake. The dragon evaporated in midair like an alchemist's trick, but Daenerys survived until the stones of Westeros rushed up to welcome her home at last.

THE END

[Fire Eater]

Also, how does this whole genderless thing work. Are they all both genders or neither? Do they reproduce asexually, and if so, how is there such a variation? Someone, perhaps Tyrion, needs to just sit down and give us the low down on dragons

I think you're referring to parthenogenesis, when female animals reproduce asexually without fertilization by a male, this is known to occur in some reptiles such as snakes like the boa constrictor, and lizards like the komodo dragon.

[boojam]

I think you're referring to parthenogenesis, when female animals reproduce asexually without fertilization by a male, this is known to occur in some reptiles such as snakes like the boa constrictor, and lizards like the komodo dragon.

There is also Sequential hermaphroditism in which a male can change into a female and female into a male.

It is not uncommon in fish, gastropods and plants.... as for dragons... do they have taxonomic rank?

Fire made flesh is an alternate universe , well George's 'Earth' is set in an alternate universe.

I can't remember coming across it in the novels, we know the names of continents , islands, oceans, but do the people have a name for the planet they live on?

So far George has not described the world of ASoIaF as anything but an alternate universe Earth, with a similar sun, moon and stars...tho it may have an off nominal orbit and possible rotational configuration than our Earth, hence the strange seasons. This world sounds a little like the planet Winter in Ursula K. Le Guin's Left Hand of Darkness.

[Gogossos]

How about height? At the end, Dany is standing next to Drogon, but no indication of height was given. Could he be taller than her at this point?

[Free Northman]

I took it as obvious that dragons change sex during different cycles of their life.

[Auska]

You do have a point there about the unreliable narrator. However now when I think back on the physics on it, it wouldn't work that way. In real life, since the weight is cubed whiile the wingspan is only doubled, 5 feet of extra wingspan would never be able to support another 100 % of mass.

It's not exactly correct to say that the ratio is double -> cubed in all cases (it works out that way when you think of a cube growing in area and volume), but in principle it's certainly true that even given special bone structure, musculature, cavities, gas bladders and so on, the wingspan must be notable.

I get that you can explain e.g. tiny wings away with magic, but at the same time a little work can produce a “scientific” dragon with only relatively little magic (or advanced technology) required.