88 replies to this topic

[Angalin]

Aryador, on 30 August 2011 - 10:11 PM, said:

If a person is called "Lord Jordayne of Tor", I immediatly imagine him to be Robert Jordan.

I used to work in a bookstore and still never made the connection.  I expect quite a few people didn't join those particular dots either.

Quote

Anyway... if we have more hidden persons in the books, I'd still be interested to hear about them. Is there a list somewhere?

This thread is full of them.

[onetruegod]

i think this is pretty epic, well done whoever the hell u r, wont affect my reading experience, i'll just think 'oh yeah thats the guy from the forum, cool!'

[Ivy Snow]

Kinda envy the dude... I'd like myself to be made a character in THIS series... will make me live forever.. s o kudos to wert!!!!! ^^

[Galen M]

Ivy Snow, on 31 August 2011 - 07:36 PM, said:

Kinda envy the dude... I'd like myself to be made a character in THIS series... will make me live forever.. s o kudos to wert!!!!! ^^

I have to settle for Garlan, kinda close.  

Though, in all seriousness, Garlan was named long before Galen Marek.

[The Pale Griffin]

Congratulations Werthead! May your death be as glorious as Ser Patrek's!

[TheBigTEA]

Congrats to Werthead! This is bad ass! I would kick some ass and take some names to get anything about me in this series.

[Lord Eddard]

Bad news. I second the opinion that the integrity of the world is com
promised. Ser Patrek was a nuisance and now this.. What's next? Ran and Linda, the Dothraki Screamers?

And for the record: the stooges reference was the worst of them all

[Ran]

Lord Eddard, on 05 September 2011 - 07:43 AM, said:

And for the record: the stooges reference was the worst of them all

Then it's been compromised since AGoT. You're still reading, so I don't think anyone's worried about your feelings.

[Lord Eddard]

Ran, on 05 September 2011 - 08:12 AM, said:

You're still reading, so I don't think anyone's worried about your feelings.

I wouldn't expect it, especially not here

Anyway, it's no biggie. I haven't any high hopes that Winds ever sees the light of day, judging from George's latest efforts, and even if it does I will be comfortably middle-aged and won't give a damn any more about some dude on an Internet board.

But right now, I think it's cheap and lame.

[oracle86]

TheBigTEA, on 04 September 2011 - 01:48 AM, said:

Congrats to Werthead! This is bad ass! I would kick some ass and take some names to get anything about me in this series.

[Kissed.By.Fire]

This is probably the coolest thing ever and I am super jealous.  What it really comes down to is that GRRM can use whatever name he wants because it's his book.  It compromises the "integrity of the work" more if he changes his vision because he's worried about one or two readers being upset about a character name that he clearly thought was the right choice.  I think it is awesome that he is conscious enough of his fans to put some of their names in his books.  Congrats to Werthead and Pat!

[CrypticWeirwood]

Lord Eddard, on 05 September 2011 - 08:41 AM, said:

But right now, I think it's cheap and lame.

I very strongly agree.  It really ruins the picture he's painting.

[Ran]

I never realized before now that there's an undercurrent of opposition to transtextuality, but that the gates being guarded are very particular ones: right and proper to reference one's own predecessors in the genre (Jordan, Tolkien, Lovecraft, Vance, Zelazny, Garner, Leiber, Eisenstein, and on and on and on), but beware referencing anything from outside of that very narrow field.

Very interesting.

[Knurk]

Argh, why are you so condescending?!?! It seems perfectly natural to me that people find these geeky references to his inner circle annoying but can appreciate hommages to other writers. Some people like it, some people don't. But do you really need to take that kind of tone?

Edited by Knurk, 05 September 2011 - 08:36 PM.

[UnGregorian_Chanting]

I think it's really awesome, tbh. I wrote a story once 2. Itwas abut a hobbit being killed by orcs, haha. Only his name was like my least favorite tecaher's name, but spelled backwards. That was funny. And then the princess had thye name of this girl I had a crush on. But I never showed it to her, coz I was scared. So yeah...

Was there a reference to Monty Pithon in Dances with Dragon too? I missed that

Edited by UnGregorian_Chanting, 06 September 2011 - 02:16 AM.

[Ran]

Knurk,

But Lord Eddard felt that the Three Stooges reference in AGoT "compromised" the work, which is the point I was responding to -- if references to things outside of the story have been "compromising" the work for him all along, but he's still reading the series, then it must not matter very much, yes?

Which Lord Eddard admitted was the case -- "It's no biggie", as he says. Fair enough.

What's with these over-the-top responses to a pretty unobjectionable point, anyways?

Edited by Ran, 06 September 2011 - 04:05 AM.

[Dragons Dancing]

Congrats to Werthead! It's kinda like getting a star or a tree named after you...a bit of immortality.

This is a congrats thread so it is bad form for people to be complaining that they don't like authors doing this. Authors do this all the time. I think it is an honor to be named in a book and not just any book in Wert's case but a George R.R. Martin book!

I've noticed a recent uptick in contrariety in the forums.

[Lord Eddard]

To be honest, Adam Whitehead appearing in the novels doesn't bother me too much - as long as it is just the name and the character appears and behaves as it is fitting in Westeros. I found "Ser Patrek" more galling, with his (for me anyway) obvious Dallas Cowboys insignia and him being slain by the Giant "One One" Phil Simms.

As Ran remarked, I don't mind other fantasy references too much - if they are subtle - , Vance, Tolkien, Lovecraft, etc, because in one way or another they are fantasy, fictional creations in which the reader immerses himself.
Westeros for me is a fantastic creation, a believable world, and heavy-handed references like the three Stooges or American Football rip me out of this world and destroy the enchantment. I don't want Westeros to degenerate into a lame Discworld clone where credibility is sacrificed for a cheap laugh.

But I am complaining about eggs that haven't been hatched yet and probably won't be for a long time. Let's see how "Adam" is implemented when/if Winds has been published.


And to this:

Dragons Dancing, on 06 September 2011 - 04:20 AM, said:

This is a congrats thread so it is bad form for people to be complaining that they don't like authors doing this.

Please refrain from chastising others who post critical observations in a thread that discusses Werthead being a character. This thread is not titled "Congrats Werthead, only positive comments please". Feel free to open such a thread, then you can complain.

[Ran]

I don't know that that's needed, but I will note that the OP clearly meant their notice to be congratulatory.

I think it makes more sense to go and start a separate thread about references and homages in a critical light, than to use this thread for that purpose.

ETA: Apparently I was not clear enough with the above, so I'll make it more explicit:

[Mod] Thread created to share cool news and congratulate Werthead on getting a reference in TWoW? Post in that spirit or don't post. Start another thread. It's the polite thing to do. [/Mod]

Edited by Ran, 06 September 2011 - 08:31 AM.

[Luzifer's right hand]

Nice! Hopefully the reference will make it into the book!