297 replies to this topic

[Seli]

Something I noticed in the pieces of both Justin and Rob is that they would have expected to see GoT episodes in short form dramatic as well as the whole series in long form. I believe that did not happen because of the ways the Hugo rules and philosophy are, to wit:

Quote

Serialized works

Works such as TV series, comics and sometimes even whole novels are sometimes published in multiple parts making up a complete story arc. The individual elements of such a story arc are always eligible for their year of publication. However, voters may want to nominate a complete story arc. In such cases it is the publication date of the final installment of the series that counts for eligibility purposes.
If an individual installment of a story arc achieves a nomination on its own then the complete story arc will probably be ruled ineligible if nominated. This is because the voters have clearly indicated that the installment stands on its own as a complete work and is not part of a longer work. (The same would apply if, for example, book 1 of a trilogy were to be nominated on its own.)

from here

Interestingly it seems computer games can also be nominated in long form dramatic. A push to get eg Mass Effect (either 3, or the whole series) nominated next year might be interesting.

Edited by Seli, 10 April 2012 - 05:22 AM.

[jdiddyesquire]

Seli, on 10 April 2012 - 05:21 AM, said:

Something I noticed in the pieces of both Justin and Rob is that they would have expected to see GoT episodes in short form dramatic as well as the whole series in long form. I believe that did not happen because of the ways the Hugo rules and philosophy are, to wit:
from here

Interestingly it seems computer games can also be nominated in long form dramatic. A push to get eg Mass Effect (either 3, or the whole series) nominated next year might be interesting.

Good catch, thanks!

[jdiddyesquire]

For those interested, I wrote up/reviewed the Hugo Short Story ballot: http://staffersmusin...hort-story.html

[Angalin]

I had an email from LoneStarCon3 about the 2013 Hugo nominations (more info here).  Any thoughts on deserving books for nomination, other than Leigh Bardugo's Shadow and Bone which I take for granted you'll all be nominating?

[Bastard of Godsgrace]

I have yet to read several things, before I am ready to create my nomination list. As for GRRM related stuff, I think A Game of Thrones part 1 should be eligible as a graphic novel and Beyond the Wall as a related work.

[Alytha]

I just noticed that I've barely read any books published in 2012...
And I didn't like the ones I read enough to consider nominating them.
The Black Opera by Mary Gentle was fun, but not quite great enough...

[Larry.]

I rarely make suggestions in these threads, but if you're wanting a name to plug in for Best Editor, Long Form, then I would suggest Ann VanderMeer, as she co-edited The Weird with her husband Jeff and was also the sole editor of the recently-released Steampunk III:  Steampunk Revolution, which I think is the best of the three steampunk anthologies released by Tachyon.  Or if you think she's more of a Short Form sort, she's now the Tor.com commissioning editor for the stories they are now publishing there.

[Regina]

<sub>In regards to the TV series, I would think that Blackwater was such a strong episode that it should be nominated by itself for short form.  However, I also know that is the opposite of what happened the previous year, when the entire season was submitted (and won!) under long form.

Any thoughts as which would be the best way to nominate for the TV series?</sub>

Edited by Regina, 14 January 2013 - 03:46 PM.

[lady narcissa]

Angalin, on 14 January 2013 - 01:18 PM, said:

I had an email from LoneStarCon3 about the 2013 Hugo nominations (more info here).  Any thoughts on deserving books for nomination, other than Leigh Bardugo's Shadow and Bone which I take for granted you'll all be nominating?

I was thinking I hadn't read anything in 2012 that qualified so thanks for reminding me that despite the fact that there isn't a separate YA Hugo award we can still nominate YA novels.

[Seli]

Regina, on 14 January 2013 - 03:45 PM, said:

<sub>In regards to the TV series, I would think that Blackwater was such a strong episode that it should be nominated by itself for short form.  However, I also know that is the opposite of what happened the previous year, when the entire season was submitted (and won!) under long form.

Any thoughts as which would be the best way to nominate for the TV series?</sub>

The Hugo committee (or whatever the proper name is) decides in the end. If enough votes are for a whole series for a nomination in long form the individual episodes are not eligible anymore for short form (if you look at the detailed vote tally you see that happened for the series last year).
So (I do assume) you can hedge your bets and nominate in both categories.

eg:

Quote

Best Dramatic Presentation, Short Form (524 ballots cast)
162 “The Doctor's Wife” (Doctor Who), written by Neil Gaiman; directed by Richard Clark (30.92%)
76 “The Girl Who Waited” (Doctor Who), written by Tom MacRae; directed by Nick Hurran (14.50%)
73 “Baelor“ (Game of Thrones), written by David Benioff and D.B. Weiss; Directed by Alan Taylor (13.93%)
[Ineligible – Nominated in Long Form]
60 “The Pointy End“ (Game of Thrones), written by George R.R. Martin; Directed by Daniel Minahan (11.45%) [Ineligible –
Nominated in Long Form]
53 “Remedial Chaos Theory” (Community), written by Dan Harmon and Chris McKenna; directed by Jeff Melman
(10.14%)
49 “Fire and Blood“ (Game of Thrones), written by David Benioff and D.B. Weiss; Directed by Alan Taylor (9.35%)
[Ineligible – Nominated in Long Form]
38 “The Drink Tank's Hugo Acceptance Speech,” Christopher J Garcia and James Bacon (7.25%)
36 “A Good Man Goes to War” (Doctor Who), written by Steven Moffat; directed by Peter Hoar (6.87%)

due to:

Quote

Best Dramatic Presentation, Long Form (603 ballots cast)
171 Game of Thrones (Season 1), created by David Benioff and D. B. Weiss; written by David Benioff, D. B. Weiss, Bryan
Cogman, Jane Espenson, and George R. R. Martin; directed by Brian Kirk, Daniel Minahan, Tim van Patten, and Alan
Taylor (28.35%)
148 Hugo, screenplay by John Logan; directed by Martin Scorsese (24.54%)
113 Captain America: The First Avenger, screenplay by Christopher Markus and Stephan McFeely, directed by Joe
Johnston (18.74%)
112 Source Code, screenplay by Ben Ripley; directed by Duncan Jones (18.57%)
105 Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows Part 2, screenplay by Steve Kloves; directed by David Yates (17.41%)

from the result pdf: http://www.thehugoaw...otingReport.pdf

Edited by Seli, 14 January 2013 - 05:47 PM.

[Regina]

Thanks for those statistics, Seli!  I remembered that the committee decides in the end, but hadn't seen those numbers before.  Interesting!

[kalbear]

Seriously, 150 votes or so is all that it takes to win.

The board should fucking dominate this.

[Seli]

Regina, on 14 January 2013 - 06:30 PM, said:

Thanks for those statistics, Seli!  I remembered that the committee decides in the end, but hadn't seen those numbers before.  Interesting!

Both nomination and the final price are decided by votes of world-con members, but there is a group of people that make the difficult decisions on how the rules (which are intentionally vague) are interpreted to put together the final ballot.

They release these statistics after the announcement of the winners (at least in the last few years), and they make some interesting browsing.

kalbear, on 14 January 2013 - 07:12 PM, said:

Seriously, 150 votes or so is all that it takes to win.

The board should fucking dominate this.

That is all it takes to be nominated, it takes a bit more to win. But still numbers are not that high (one of the common complaints about both Hugo and Nebula).
Due to the voting system (australian ranked votes IIRC) it is not quite clear to me what would be needed for a win, but less than 1000 seems to have been enough in most categories, with if I read correctly 400-ish for the least popular categories.

Edited by Seli, 14 January 2013 - 07:27 PM.

[David Selig]

Angalin, on 14 January 2013 - 01:18 PM, said:

I had an email from LoneStarCon3 about the 2013 Hugo nominations (more info here).  Any thoughts on deserving books for nomination, other than Leigh Bardugo's Shadow and Bone which I take for granted you'll all be nominating?

The Drowning Girl by Caitlin R. Kiernan. The best speculative fiction novel I read in 2012 by some margin. Here and here you can read two excellent reviews of it you are interested.

[Werthead]

I've been informed by email that those of us who have already registered for Worldcon 2014 in London can actually nominate for the 2013 awards as well, but not take part in the final vote (unless you get a supporting membership or are actually going to 2013 as well, natch). Apparently we should be contacted in due course to sort that out.

Haven't thought hard about possible nominations, but I'm definitely leaning towards Existence for the novel list and GoT S2 for the long-form list. No idea at all on the short-form list.

Question: what's the current ruling on the status of computer games? If The Walking Dead game counts as short-form (episodic releases, each taking 1-3 hours to complete) I'd be tempted to put that up there. SFF TV last year was pretty weak otherwise.

[Seli]

Werthead, on 15 January 2013 - 05:47 PM, said:

...
Question: what's the current ruling on the status of computer games? If The Walking Dead game counts as short-form (episodic releases, each taking 1-3 hours to complete) I'd be tempted to put that up there. SFF TV last year was pretty weak otherwise.

Going by the website they are eligible in the short- or long-form categories, so it should be possible. The episodic work rule seems to indicate that the whole series is eligible in long form as well. As is the Mass Effect trilogy.

Quote

• Best Dramatic Presentation (Long Form): This Award can be given a dramatized production in any medium, including film, television, radio, live theater, computer games or music. The work must last 90 minutes or longer (excluding commercials).
  
• Best Dramatic Presentation (Short Form): This Award can be given a dramatized production in any medium, including film, television, radio, live theater, computer games or music. The work must be less than 90 minutes long (excluding commercials).

and

Quote

Serialized Works

Works such as TV series, comics and sometimes even whole novels are sometimes published in multiple parts making up a complete story arc. The individual elements of such a story arc are always eligible for their year of publication. However, voters may want to nominate a complete story arc. In such cases it is the publication date of the final installment of the series that counts for eligibility purposes.
If an individual installment of a story arc achieves a nomination on its own then the complete story arc will probably be ruled ineligible if nominated. This is because the voters have clearly indicated that the installment stands on its own as a complete work and is not part of a longer work. (The same would apply if, for example, book 1 of a trilogy were to be nominated on its own.)

from: http://www.thehugoaw...ugo-categories/

Edited by Seli, 15 January 2013 - 06:54 PM.

[Angalin]

Does anyone have any suggestions for Best Professional Artist?  I assume this means someone is eligible for the category and who's done a book cover in the relevant time period.

[Ser Camaris]

I've been puzzling over this, too - I've read a lot of books lately but I am trying to remember which ones are eligible. I'll look forward to reading other people's suggestions. Don't forget the Campbell, either!

[Werthead]

I put down Marc Simonetti for artist for the 2013 ASoIaF calendar.

[Bastard of Godsgrace]

What about Game of Thrones? Do they go for the long form again, or do we nominate chosen episodes for short form?