113 replies to this topic

[deathsaber]

Wow, I have to say, I really enjoy the guy, maybe the best representative of the Iron Islands in this story, and I generally enjoyed his outlooks, the fact these he is not going down quietly to this brother, and general badassery.

However the backstory with his wife...damn.  I can see why she must die in Iron Islands society and she did betray him, but did honor really have to call for him to beat her slowly to death with his bare hands as she cried, which seemed to haunt him a little, despite the betrayal.  Couldn't he have just ran her through with his axe?

This seemed excessive to me, but do you think that the execution was done in this manner because Iron Islands custom called for it, or just because Victarian is an especially brutal guy?

[David Selig]

Victarion is a coward too superstitious to go after who he really blamed for this - Euron. So he took his anger on his wife. He's a real monster and an idiot too.

[King_In_The_North]

Vic is extremely conservative and doesn't really think for himself, only goes by traditions. His stupidity/attitude was amusing in ADWD but I don't really like the guy, especially for beating his wife to death. I mean, WTF?

[dunbarbw]

David Selig, on 07 September 2011 - 11:53 AM, said:

Victarion is a coward too superstitious to go after who he really blamed for this - Euron. So he took his anger on his wife. He's a real monster and an idiot too.

His eldest brother and LIEGE LORD said he would have no kinslaying. Not saying I condone the killing of his wife, but in the world of ASOIAF when your lord says you cant do something youre supposed to listen to him.

[Brienne the Beauty]

deathsaber, on 07 September 2011 - 11:49 AM, said:

However the backstory with his wife...damn.  I can see why she must die in Iron Islands society and she did betray him, but did honor really have to call for him to beat her slowly to death with his bare hands as she cried, which seemed to haunt him a little, despite the betrayal.  Couldn't he have just ran her through with his axe?

This seemed excessive to me, but do you think that the execution was done in this manner because Iron Islands custom called for it, or just because Victarian is an especially brutal guy?

The latter.

Victarion is no different than any man who commits an "honour killing" - a brute.

The exact code of honour the Iron Islanders ascribe to has not been described to us, but it seems unlikely that beating to death is the normal punishment for an adulterous wife. Asha doesn't seem alarmed by the prospect, and she's certainly an adulterous wife.

Victarion may feel he has lost his honour in this way, but to be quite frank, he's an idiot. No-one respects him any the more for doing it. People might have respected him if he killed Euron instead, but killing some helpless woman because he couldn't keep her faithful is hardly impressing anyone with his macho nature. In fact, quite the opposite.

We can also doubt his testimony as to her willing adultery. Euron is a very rapey guy. It's possible Victarion's wife had no say in it.

[Lord Jon Connington]

Brienne the Beauty, on 07 September 2011 - 11:59 AM, said:

Victarion may feel he has lost his honour in this way, but to be quite frank, he's an idiot. No-one respects him any the more for doing it. People might have respected him if he killed Euron instead, but killing some helpless woman because he couldn't keep her faithful is hardly impressing anyone with his macho nature. In fact, quite the opposite.

No they wouldn't. Kinslaying seems to be worst possible offence in Westeros.

[Suzette]

Lord Jon Connington, on 07 September 2011 - 12:01 PM, said:

No they wouldn't. Kinslaying seems to be worst possible offence in Westeros.

Yeah I think it has less to do her and more to do with his brother that he is not allowed to kill. He WANTED to kill his brother but was not allowed because he would be a Kinslayer. which is like unforgivable or something.
Worse than killing your own wife.

[Brienne the Beauty]

Lord Jon Connington, on 07 September 2011 - 12:01 PM, said:

No they wouldn't. Kinslaying seems to be worst possible offence in Westeros.

Well, it certainly worked for Euron!

If he had a few braincells he could have thought of some other revenge that didn't involve actually killing his brother, but frankly he is too ineffectual to carry any such plan through. He couldn't think of anything to do that would achieve a substantial revenge, so he beat his wife to death in the hope that it would make him look a little badass. It didn't. Killing his wife didn't get him any honour back at all. All the Ironmen think he's an idiot.

[VivaVictarion]

Both Euron and his wife were at fault. With Balon dead and gone, he should have killed Euron as soon as he came back. That is, if his own personal honour still demands it.

[Alexia]

Brienne the Beauty, on 07 September 2011 - 11:59 AM, said:

We can also doubt his testimony as to her willing adultery. Euron is a very rapey guy. It's possible Victarion's wife had no say in it.

Yeah, TBH, I have always had the very strong sense that his wife was raped by Euron -- and I think he chose the method of killing her because he is a horrible brute.

He was hilariously entertaining in ADWD but he is a terrible, terrible person who deserves to die a thousand times over.

[Gloria]

Isn't your wife technically your kin?  I'm not trying to be a troll, but I'm actually curious.  Do you think in Westeros your spouse counts for kinslaying?

dunbarbw, on 07 September 2011 - 11:59 AM, said:

His eldest brother and LIEGE LORD said he would have no kinslaying. Not saying I condone the killing of his wife, but in the world of ASOIAF when your lord says you cant do something youre supposed to listen to him.

[Kraken's Grip]

Kinslaying refers to a blood bond in Westeros (I believe).

I don't think Victarion is "stupid" as some posters have stated, rather rash and brutish (badass maybe?).

Kinslaying to those who seem to hold any Gods known to Westeros seem to hold the worst fate in the afterlife, and with the way Victarion lives, I doubt he will be killing the Crows Eye anytime soon.

The true purpose in his quest will be to surpass his brother Euron, and keep true to the Drowned God.. and whatever is going on with the red god ha

Wife for a wife?

[Brienne the Beauty]

Gloria, on 07 September 2011 - 02:29 PM, said:

Isn't your wife technically your kin?  I'm not trying to be a troll, but I'm actually curious.  Do you think in Westeros your spouse counts for kinslaying?

"Kin" is not really defined in the novels for the purpose of kinslaying. I assume it only means very close blood relations (siblings, parents and children.)

I'd guess wives and relations by marriage (e.g stepchildren) would not count. Nor would cousins and other distant relatives, otherwise the battlefields of Westeros would be unfeasibly hazardous to the karma, since everyone is related to everyone else.

But really we are just guessing here.

[David Selig]

Come to think of it, couldn't Victarion cut off Euron's arms and geld him, but leave him alive? That's not technically kinslaying...

[King_In_The_North]

No, but I don't think he can just geld people whenever he feels like it, even if it's justified.

[Odendisa]

Victarion is a coward, a spineless piece of navel lint just as any honor murderer

[Winterfell is Burning]

Victarion is an idiot whose only redeemable quality is that he sometimes is unintentionally funny.

[Aachen]

I always got the feeling that he was angered beyond imagine by what his brother and wife had done and also the apparent smug look Euron had on his face, thus with Ironborn customs stating the wife should die, Victarion took it a step further and took out all his anger at his brother smashing his wife's face to a pulp.

I obviously don't condone this, but he is Ironborn, this appears to be what they do.

[3LittleBirds]

The way I read it, the way he went about it was quite excessive, and not necessarily a "custom".  I mean, I don't have the book in front of me, but didn't he make it a point of saying that he purposely didn't give her body to the sea, to go to the Drowned God or whatever, but rather fed her body to the crabs?  Pretty sure I didn't just make that up, but you never know.  Anyone with a book or good memory want to chime in?

I think he was just so filled with rage that he did what he did.  I honestly don't remember it being any sort of customary execution, but rather a brutal murder that he justified as necessary to upholding his honor.

Semi-side note: Is there consensus on whether the wife was seduced or raped?  Knowing Euron (like we're close personal friends and all...lol) it could go either way.  I'm honestly curious as to what people think...

[Elenya Westerling]

I always thought it was seduction... but actually, now you mention it, I suppose it could have been rape.