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[twow Spoilers] Arianne Ii, Part 2

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#1 Angalin

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 01:11 PM

<mod gloves>
Boarders' notes on GRRM's reading at Worldcon are consolidated here. Please stay on topic. Speculation on unrelated or tangential developments can go elsewhere.
</mod gloves>

I'm sure someone else will chime in with a more detailed report, but in the meantime...

basically Arriane, Elia, and some others from Dorne are traveling to meet lord Connington. Arriane spends much of the trip thinking about Quentyn and if he actually found Dany, wondering, "do I have to call him King".

At one point Elia wanders off into a cave where they find carvings from the children of the forest. She's acting out a little bit and Arriane has to put her in her place.

When they finally arrive at Griffins Roost they learn that Connington has already left for Storms End. Later they learn that he has taken the castle! Arriane doesn't quite believe it, but when asked by conningtons men if she would like to be taken to see Connington and Aegon, they would escort her by sea. She was urged not to go by (I forget), but declared that she wanted to see this "Dragon"....

I took copious notes. I'll make sure to post them when I get home.

a few notes

This chapter is one of two that was moved to ADwD.

Arianne spends the majority of the chapter traveling with a few comapnions. Nym and Tyene had also departed Dorne with Myrcella and 300 hundred spears. Trystane is still safely in Dorne. Doran sent her as soon as they heard of Connington. Elia ia a pain in the ass the whole time, Arianne catches her making out with a servant named Feathers who is twice Elia's age.

Arianne party is met by two Golden Company men names Young John Mudd and Chain. They won't tell her much she eventually get Chain to tell her Connington is marching to Storm's End. Lysano Maar takes charge and Arianne does not like him.

They arrive at the Roost and are told by the Halfmaester that Storm's End has fallen and the Tyrells are marching from King's Landing. The Bastard of Godsgrace urges her not to go to Storm's End by Arianne says she must be her father's heir and she needs to see this dragon.

I hesitate to post this because I did not take notes but I heard the reading at WorldCon. It is a travelogue but you see that Arienne has become more like Doran in her thinking and cautiousness.
George was explicit that he did not want anyone recording the reading and I was sitting in second row in front of him so didn't think I should be taking notes. Hopefully someone took more detailed notes and will post them, but the chapter did not have any critical information.

I concur with what has been provided about the reading. I will add that Arianne was very skeptical and cautious about Aegon. She traveled with a lot of guards and Elia and they sought out information every chance they got and she sent 5 ravens to Prince Doran with information. She made the trip to gather as much information as she could as to their intentions and troop strength. She was also wondering if he had information about Quentyn. She had no thought of marriage to Aegon. She was not planning to commit Dorne leaving that decision to Doran. She was very put off by the crudeness of the sellswords at Griffins Roost and they wouldn’t answer many of her questions and were cagy about the ones they did answer. She was surprised that Aegon had taken Storms End but there was no information provided as to how he had taken it but rumors her guards picked up that it had been bloody. When the invite came to go to Storms End to meet Aegon and Connington she was conflicted. She wondered if it was a trap where she might be held ransom for her father’s throwing his support to Aegon, and her lead guard counseled her against going, but she agreed to go anyway and that is where the chapter ended.

This chapter had no new information about what was going on elsewhere in the Kingdom and little new about Aegon except that he had taken Storms End.

Some details about the reading at WorldCon that seem to have been missed off the reports:

George actually gave the audience a choice of chapters, either Aeron Damphair or Arianne. He did try to sell the Damphair chapter by saying there was some "seriously twisted stuff" in there but the majority of the audience went with Arianne instead.

After the reading George did mention that the chapter was Arianne II and not Arianne I. He said the first Arianne chapter is set back in Sunspear and is about Doran learning about Aegon landing in the Stormlands and sending Arianne to go and gather information for him.

The Q&A was a set of fairly typical questions, most of which have been asked a hundred times before. The only one that stands out (for the answer, not the question) was about character fates and whether George has everything figured out. He used an example based on the chapter saying he knows the fate of Arianne but he does not know the fate of Feathers (the man Elia was caught snogging in case you missed that).

I think the details about what happened in the chapter have all been reported. Personally I felt like it was a bit of a slow chapter, certainly the first half which was all travelogue and it didn't really get going until Arianne arrived at Griffin's Roost near the end. Books need chapters like this but I've certainly heard George read more exciting chapters before and with the benefit of hindsight I kind of wished more of the audience had been swayed to go with the Damphair instead. Maybe he'll read that one next time at Eastercon (Radisson Hotel, Heathrow Airport, London) in April 2012. For anyone in the UK or Europe that has not met George or heard him read before this will be the Con to get to.


Edited by Angalin, 08 September 2011 - 10:39 PM.


#2 Alexia

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 01:21 PM

Quick comment: shouldn't the topic now be titled Arianne II rather than I post-lord-Goat's clarification?

[yes - typo. Thanks for pointing it out. Ang]

Edited by Angalin, 08 September 2011 - 10:39 PM.
acknowledgement


#3 Ampersand

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 05:12 PM

George actually gave the audience a choice of chapters, either Aeron Damphair or Arianne. He did try to sell the Damphair chapter by saying there was some "seriously twisted stuff" in there but the majority of the audience went with Arianne instead.


Off topic, but I wonder if the Damphair chapter confirms the speculation that he was molested by Euron as a child. Yikes.

#4 History of Westeros

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 07:29 PM


Off topic, but I wonder if the Damphair chapter confirms the speculation that he was molested by Euron as a child. Yikes.


Oh very strong chance there, I'd say. Good call.

#5 Fire Eater

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 12:13 AM


Off topic, but I wonder if the Damphair chapter confirms the speculation that he was molested by Euron as a child. Yikes.


What Azizal said, plus GRRM is basically breaking all taboos such as (tw)incest and (tw)inbreeding and cannibalism it was only a matter of time before he did the incestuous rape of a man's own brother.

On another subject, I wonder if there are also cave paintings by the children of the forest in the cave where Bran is? What do they show and what can be learned from them?

#6 dreamcatcher

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Posted 11 September 2011 - 06:33 PM

After the reading George did mention that the chapter was Arianne II and not Arianne I. He said the first Arianne chapter is set back in Sunspear and is about Doran learning about Aegon landing in the Stormlands and sending Arianne to go and gather information for him.


Oh no. And here I was thinking that George sped things up again by not showing us every detail. What happened with Doran could've easily been slipped to her thoughts.

#7 A Man

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 05:04 PM

I have a little theory regarding the Tyrells, but I don't know if this is the proper channel for this post. I'm putting it here because it involves a couple details from the Arianne II chapter discussed in this forum, but feels too off topic and speculative to add to that thread.

I find the Tyrells fascinating, but I don't know how deep or multifaceted they are. They seem largely unified (even if Mace is left in the dark a lot) and completely fixated on gaining power/the throne. After all, the Tyrell words are "Growing Strong." First they backed Aerys during Robert's Rebellion. In my eyes, Robert's side fought for honor, those who backed Aerys did so for duty, or for power. After all, who would have ever believed the Targs would be unseated? When Robert won he pardoned the Tyrells in exchange for their fealty, which places them in the power camp, rather than duty. Then in GoT Renly and Loras seem to have a pet plan to wed Margery to Robert based on a supposed resemblance to Lyana. After Robert is gone they choose Joff, and off Joff to get to the more tractable Tommen. Even Littlefinger respects Olenna as a powerful player of the game, and I think Margaery is Olenna's protege.

Now for speculation: my personal opinion is that Margaery will be found innocent, and Loras' injuries are not what we've been led to believe. The Tyrells are still growing strong. However, the power they've aligned themselves with, that of House Lannister, is not. Here I want to point out something I've noticed about those who were pardoned after Robert's Rebellion - they seem to still be Targ loyalists. (Ser Grandfather and Lord Eunuch jump to mind, as we see them backing the Targs, again or still.) Even further, it was the first Aegon who raised the Tyrells to lords of the Reach over the Florents. We all know that there is an impending return of House Targaryen to Westeros. While Dany's return is the one we've been anticipating, my guess is that the arrival of "Aegon" with JC and the GC will bring about another 'change of heart' for the Tyrells. From what I've read JC & co and the Tyrells are converging on Storms End. I think it's here that the Tyrells rejoin the "Targs" and maybe even arrange to marry Margaery to "Aegon." They value power over honor, so I can see them joining forces with Connington even if they doubt YG's authenticity. Highgarden + GC would be a formidable alliance. It seems vaguely possible to me that Dorne or the Vale might join with that front as well, though I'm torn in that regard. Good cases can be made for and against a Dornish alliance, and while the Tyrells seem to have a good relationship with LF, I think his sights are elsewhere, and tangling LF's plans with Varys' feels messy.

Any thoughts on the future of the Tyrells? or the events at Storms End?

#8 tozka

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 12:12 AM

Oh no. And here I was thinking that George sped things up again by not showing us every detail. What happened with Doran could've easily been slipped to her thoughts.

I disagree. I'd love to see Doran's reaction to Aegon and his musings on what is happening with Quentyn, King's Landing and so on. It's these details - one of the things that make it so epic.

Edited by tozka, 13 September 2011 - 12:13 AM.


#9 dreamcatcher

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 07:02 PM

I disagree. I'd love to see Doran's reaction to Aegon and his musings on what is happening with Quentyn, King's Landing and so on. It's these details - one of the things that make it so epic.


Sure, but not if he wants to finish it in 2 books.

#10 Cotter_Pyke

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 08:52 AM

Victarion reached Dany in 2 chapters, i'm not worried.

#11 HouseLark

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 10:19 AM

Victarion reached Dany in 2 chapters, i'm not worried.


And Aegon reached Westeros in one book. He seems more effective and efficient than Dany /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

#12 Black Amethyst

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 05:19 AM


And Aegon reached Westeros in one book. He seems more effective and efficient than Dany /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />


Not saying much. Most people are more effective and efficient than Dany.

#13 Zezibesh

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 09:25 AM

Wait, people actually voted to hear an Arianne chapter instead of Damphair, even when Gurm hyped up the Damphair one?
Wow, that was a strange crowd.

#14 Eggplant Wizard

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 03:01 PM

This is Arianne II? Come on George, we don't need a pointless filler chapter where all she does is find out Aegon landed. You can do that in the first paragraph of this second chapter. You don't have to pad out the page count!

#15 Wouter

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Posted 18 September 2011 - 01:02 PM

Wait, people actually voted to hear an Arianne chapter instead of Damphair, even when Gurm hyped up the Damphair one?
Wow, that was a strange crowd.

What's strange about that? Arianne, especially in a chapter that brings news about the war of Connington and Aegon, sounds much more interesting that the Damphair. What could he be doing anyway, with Asha and Theon still far away from him and Euron and Victarion even farther?

#16 Fire Eater

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 12:13 AM

Lord Eldon Estermont is being held as a captive by JC, I wonder if Arianne will get to see his wife, Sylva Santagar, her old friend?

#17 Wouter

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 03:00 AM

Lord Eldon Estermont is being held as a captive by JC, I wonder if Arianne will get to see his wife, Sylva Santagar, her old friend?

That's a good catch, Arianne has some unfinished business there. Especially since we (and she) still don't know who betrayed the entire Myrcella plot to Doran.

#18 blackseer

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Posted 21 September 2011 - 08:27 PM

What I find most strange is why Doran, who is always patient and reasonable, would send his heir to meet this rebel, who could be an ally or just another doomed pretender? If the Iron Throne finds out about the meeting, they won't be very happy...

#19 Gaston de Foix

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 07:41 AM

because Doran (1) sees a weak King, (2) Cersei as Queen Regent, (3) they tried to kill his son (Trystane), (4) he has heard reports that Quentyn is on his way, and (5) he thinks sealing an alliance with the Golden Company and Jon Connington, may smooth the way for Dany, (6) because he can't trust any other envoy, and (7) because Connington would be an idiot to inform King's Landing that Doran is contemplating an alliance when he needs Dorne much more than Dorne needs him.

It is though that funny that Doran thought Jon Connington was worth a close look but didn't even think twice about Stannis.

#20 Été

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 09:01 AM

It is though that funny that Doran thought Jon Connington was worth a close look but didn't even think twice about Stannis.

House Baratheon started the war that killed Elia. I don't see Dorne considering an alliance with them any time soon, nor the Starks, Tullys or Arryns. He didn't spare a thought for the Young Wolf either.