86 replies to this topic

[Antonius Pius]

I'm going to discount the Cleganes until we actually get a hint that Dunk might be their ancestor. If height is all there is, Dunk might also be the ancestor of Strongboar, the Greatjon (and the Smalljon), Hardstone, the Titan's Bastard, Mag Mar Tun Doh Weg and Qhorin Halfhand.

Brienne and Hodor seem givens. I have no idea who the other ones might be.

Does anybody have a link for that bit in So Spake Martin where GRRM confirms that there are 4 of Dunk's descendants running around, or that we've met four?

[A Maidens Fantasy]

The Cleganes make sense since their part of the story is all about what defines a true knight. Just like Dunk rises to be the greatest knight of them all and commander of the KG, without actually being knighted (that is he is not a knight yet, I would like to see Egg knight him in secret in some future D&E).

[Été]

A Maidens Fantasy, on 20 October 2011 - 06:04 AM, said:

The Cleganes make sense since their part of the story is all about what defines a true knight. Just like Dunk rises to be the greatest knight of them all and commander of the KG, without actually being knighted (that is he is not a knight yet, I would like to see Egg knight him in secret in some future D&E).

As is Brienne's, to some extent. She has all the attributes of a true knight, right down to her noble and impossible quest; all she's missing is the dangly bits.

[voodooqueen126]

Été, on 20 October 2011 - 06:22 AM, said:

As is Brienne's, to some extent. She has all the attributes of a true knight, right down to her noble and impossible quest; all she's missing is the dangly bits.

okay so between 208 (the first Dunk and Egg) and 234 (when Aegon V became king)
exactly how many generations have passed since then.
so first child to be conceived when Dunk visits Winterfell in the next Dunk and Egg (with old Nan=Hodor's father or grandfather)
another has to be conceived to become Brienne of Tarth's (maternal) grandfather/grandmother.
a possible Clegane ancestor (adventures in Lannisport...) or from the same branch as Old Nan thus explaining the Northern look that the Cleganes have...
2nd

[Brandon the Epithetless]

Did someone just make up that 4 descendants issue? I can't find the SSM that gives a number to Dunk's living descendants, all I can find are confirmations that there is a descendant of Dunk already encountered in the novels:

http://www.westeros....ks_Descendants/
http://www.westeros....ning_San_Diego/
http://www.westeros....Tour_Dayton_OH/

But I've seen this '4' claim for so long that I think there must be something to it, does anybody know if it is in an external source for this never compiled in an SSM?

[voodooqueen126]

Brandon the Epithetless, on 20 October 2011 - 07:05 AM, said:

Did someone just make up that 4 descendants issue? I can't find the SSM that gives a number to Dunk's living descendants, all I can find are confirmations that there is a descendant of Dunk already encountered in the novels:

http://www.westeros....ks_Descendants/
http://www.westeros....ning_San_Diego/
http://www.westeros....Tour_Dayton_OH/

But I've seen this '4' claim for so long that I think there must be something to it, does anybody know if it is in an external source for this never compiled in an SSM?

you to be honest I don't like the idea of the Cleganes being the descendant of Dunk and would prefer it to be some Umber with a Bolton mother who got a bastard when taking the lord's right and that girl went south to make her fortune in Lannisport and married Sandor's grandfather...
But the 4 descendants thing would make them the most likely options after Brienne and Hodor (whom we are both certain about).

[Été]

I don't even think their colouring needs to be "explained" by northern ancestry. Some of the Daynes have white-blond hair and purple eyes, but they've never intermarried with the Targaryens; their look has arisen independently. It would be a sweet Easter Egg though, since we rarely meet characters with grey eyes.

[daenerys snow]

the northmen were descendants of he first men. the first men used to live all over westeros until the arrival of the andals. but not all of the first men were forced north, some remained in the south. we know the hightowers are descended from the first men. the cleganes might be too.

[voodooqueen126]

daenerys snow, on 22 October 2011 - 03:32 AM, said:

the northmen were descendants of he first men. the first men used to live all over westeros until the arrival of the andals. but not all of the first men were forced north, some remained in the south. we know the hightowers are descended from the first men. the cleganes might be too.

well in England wasn't it said that the aristocracy was Norman, whilst the peasantry was Anglo-Saxon... so since the Cleganes were peasants until a generation or two ago... it could explain that.

[Glyn Tarvoke]

Wow, it seems to me logical Hodor is one of Ser Duncan the Tall's descendants.  Old Nan is his great grandmother. I guess a possible answer will be more clear in the next Duncan and Egg tale, as supposedly they were heading North at the end of the last one and GRMM has mentioned a bit about the story in interviews.  (I always thought Hodor had a giant as an ancestor, like the Umbars apparently did, but Duncan as an ancestor also makes sense).

Maybe after GRMM finishes his works he can write a companion work--Hidden Riddles of Westoros in which he answers some of these hidden questions.  Course, that would ruin some of the fun in reading his books.

[Rapsie]

Été, on 21 October 2011 - 04:00 AM, said:

I don't even think their colouring needs to be "explained" by northern ancestry. Some of the Daynes have white-blond hair and purple eyes, but they've never intermarried with the Targaryens; their look has arisen independently. It would be a sweet Easter Egg though, since we rarely meet characters with grey eyes.

I thought the Daynes had Valarian blood like the Lynesse, which explained their colouring.

[Dragonfish]

Rapsie, on 22 October 2011 - 02:11 PM, said:

I thought the Daynes had Valarian blood like the Lynesse, which explained their colouring.

GRRM has pretty much confirmed that the Daynes do not have Valyrian blood:

"Ashara Dayne is described as having violet eyes. Is this from a marriage to the Martells after Daeron II's sister married into that line, thus giving them some Targaryen features? From other Valyrian descendants?...

I would have to consult my notes to tell you the Dayne arms. Offhand I don't recall. As for the violet eyes . . . look, Elizabeth Taylor has violet eyes, and she's not of Valyrian descent (that I know). Nor is she related to Aegon the Conquerer. Many Swedes have blue eyes, but not all those with blue eyes are Swedes, and not all Swedes have blue eyes. The same confusions exist in the 7 Kingdoms...

If you want to figure out a family's descent, the names are a better clue than the eyes. Houses descended from the First Men tend to have simple short names, often descriptive. Stark. Reed. Flint. Tallhart (tall hart). Etc. The Valyrian names are fairly distinct are well: The "ae" usage usually suggests a Valyrian in the family tree. The Andal names are . . . well, neith Stark nor Targaryen, if that makes sense. Lannister. Arryn. Tyrell. Etc. Of course, you also need to remember that there have been hundreds and in some cases thousands of years of interbreeding, so hardly anyone is pure Andal or First Man."

[Efilnikufesin]

How about Big John and Small Jon Umber?

[Anvilbreaker]

The dayne arms are a white sword and star on a purple background to represent dawn and the meteor it came from

[Great Dayne]

To stay on topic, I believe another possibility could be Septon Meribald (sorry if I have spelling wrong).  If I remember correctly he was a good sized man with big gnarled hands.  Like Dunk, he lived in the hedges and was kind to all the smallfalok.  I also like to think there is a link between the two because Dunk was about honor and being a good knight, and Septon Meribald took it to another level of how war really impacts the people.

[Ororo727 Jon Snow Fangirl]

Été, on 21 October 2011 - 04:00 AM, said:

I don't even think their colouring needs to be "explained" by northern ancestry. Some of the Daynes have white-blond hair and purple eyes, but they've never intermarried with the Targaryens; their look has arisen independently. It would be a sweet Easter Egg though, since we rarely meet characters with grey eyes.

The must have intermarried.

Edited by Ororo727, 30 January 2012 - 07:21 PM.

[tze]

Can someone please direct me to the SSM where GRRM says/implies there are four Dunk descendants? I see SSMs mentioning one descendant, but where are people seeing him say there are four?

[Sand Snake No. 9]

Are y'all saying that the Cleganes have a northern look because they're descended from Dunk? According to the stories so far, Dunk isn't northern -- he was born and raised in King's Landing until Ser Arlen plucked him out of the slums and made him a squire. However, in future stories GRRM may tell us that his Dad is northern.

[Humphrey Plantagenet]

Brienne size and choice of Shield make her a certainty. With the next Egg & Dunk story said to be set in Winterfell & Bran's vision of the young woman kissing the tall knight I'm feeling confident about Hodor. Septon Meribald is a great idea. I loved his monologue on broken men. I've not got anything clever for the fourth, but how about something from left field...Ser Archibald Yronwood. He's a big guy. Loyal, good in a fight. Dunk & Egg did spend some ("off screen") time in Dorne.

[The hairy bear]

tze, on 30 January 2012 - 08:36 PM, said:

Can someone please direct me to the SSM where GRRM says/implies there are four Dunk descendants? I see SSMs mentioning one descendant, but where are people seeing him say there are four?

I for one don't recall any single mention of George saying there were four descendants of Dunk. Could somebody please point to the quote?