Tie-in Novels

[Myrddin]

Shameless plug for two Eberron books I beta read:

The Shard Axe

Legacy of Wolves

[Grack21]

Whoa! I thought they killed of the Ebberon setting novels. MOst of those are pretty damn good.

[Noroldis]

Grack21:

That number came directly from George Lucas himself.

This is why I sometimes get twitchy. If you hate Travis that's fine, but don't blame her for things she wasn't responsible for.

The number may have come from George Lucas, but as The Wisest Bass says it was Traviss's decision to defend it tooth and nail, despite people suggesting workarounds and offering compelling evidence that the number was insanely low (heck, approximately 60 million men fought during World War II, and that was at a time when Earth's population didn't number more than 2,5 billion). And the self-serving short story that TBS mentions didn't improve her detractors' opinion of her.

As for the Talifan thing, it wasn't fans critical of the numbers she called that, it was the ones who made the death threats and uploading videos of a representation of her being violently tortured. People like to ignore the ugly side of fandom.

Where is it said that it was only the extreme detractors that she called Talifans? Because from what I remember, she encompassed all her detractors with that word.

[Grack21]

Grack21:

The number may have come from George Lucas, but as The Wisest Bass says it was Traviss's decision to defend it tooth and nail, despite people suggesting workarounds and offering compelling evidence that the number was insanely low (heck, approximately 60 million men fought during World War II, and that was at a time when Earth's population didn't number more than 2,5 billion). And the self-serving short story that TBS mentions didn't improve her detractors' opinion of her.

Where is it said that it was only the extreme detractors that she called Talifans? Because from what I remember, she encompassed all her detractors with that word.

I understand that people had compelling evidence that it was insanely low, I'm saying Lucas was told and stuck to his number anyway. Her defense of it may have sucked balls, but it was Lucas who refused to change the number in anyway.

As for the Talifan thing, mayhaps I remember it wrong. It was all said on blogs that are gone now. I'll agree see shouldn't have said it, but after seeing some of the crazy stuff her "detractors" came up with, I find it hard to blame her that much.

[Spaceman Hobbes]

Hey, if you can make sweeping generalties about Travis' fans, then I can do the same about her detractors.

Dude. I said you're irrational. I even explained why I thought liking mando-wank retconning books is irrational.

Your response is to accuse me of making death threats. That's fucked up on so many levels I don't even know how to respond to it.

[SkynJay]

Ok, moving away from the all Traviss, all the time thread.

Reading the current Fate of the Jedi book now, and it has me wondering. Who is the brain behind the overall plot of these sweeping series? They come out fast, so there has to be a base plot line in place. Anyone know if each of these has a ringleader?

[Noroldis]

SkynJay:

Reading the current Fate of the Jedi book now, and it has me wondering. Who is the brain behind the overall plot of these sweeping series? They come out fast, so there has to be a base plot line in place. Anyone know if each of these has a ringleader?

I seem to remember seeing a Troy Denning post at TheForce.net where he mentioned that the series' overall plot was discussed among and hashed out between the three authors involved, with no one author having greater authority over the other two, but don't quote me on that.

In other TFN news, the latest FotJ book, Ascension, is currently on track to be one of the lowest-rated novels ever by the reader community there. On a score of 1 to 10, Ascension currently rates 5,08 with 27 people having evaluated it. Ouch!

http://boards.theforce.net/literature/b10003/31875879/p3/?43

Ascension also got dismal reviews from two of TFN's official reviewers, scoring 1,5 out of 4 and of 1,8 out of 4:

http://www.theforce.net/books/reviews/r_ascension.asp

[Grack21]

Dude. I said you're irrational. I even explained why I thought liking mando-wank retconning books is irrational.

Your response is to accuse me of making death threats. That's fucked up on so many levels I don't even know how to respond to it.

No, you said this.

I'm not surprised. Traviss fans aren't exactly rational thinkers.

Sure sounds like you're saying all Travis fans are irrational thinkers.

Then I said

Yeah, and her detractors has been known to make death threats on youtube.

I never said at any point that YOU SPECIFICALLY made death threats. I never ACCUSED you of anything. Perhaps I should have put SOME in front of HER DETRACTORS, but I figured reading comprehensive on this board was higher then the 3rd grade or so. And to be clear, yes, I DID just call you an idiot there.

[Galactus]

Hmmm, i've read the Drizzt books of course, the Dark Elf trilogy is, I think, probably the best of the bunch. The rest are hit-and-miss and then becomes horribly boring. (the first book, The Crystal Shard, is very interesting because it's clear that Drizzt wasn't supposed to be the protagonist originally...)

Most FR stuff is pretty bad, although occasionally in a fun way. I remember vaguely liking a series set in Halruaa, but I can't for the life of me remember why, so that might not be reliable.

The Ravenor and Ciaphas Cain books are both great (in different ways) The Grey Knights books were... So-so but had some interesting stuff in them.

On the WFHB side (it's probably heresy, but I like FB more than 40K) the Gotrek and Felix books are supposed to be OK (have only read one and it was a decent fluffy "Two adventurers kill everything" romp) The Matthias Thulmann: Witch Hunter books are actually pretty good. (Inspired by Solomon Kane) as are the adventures of Florin & Lorenzo (swashbuckling adventure!) and the I, Genevive books. (although the latter don't fit very well with canon at all, there's just no way vampires would be treated like they are in that book) still, it's a fun series of books, I especially liked the pastische of gothic novels.

There was also a novel featuring Thanquol that was incredibly fun (but then again the Skaven are some of my favourites) mainly because literally every named character but two ended up dead. Chronic backstabbing is fun :P

Also read the "Age of Legends" books about Nagash, they're pretty fun too (again the Skaven liven it up a bit, and it's nice getting a glimpse of pre-LOTD Nehekhara) it glosses over some of the interesting bits that should have gotten more attention and generally fails at making the human drama work, but there's some pretty epic battles.

[Spaceman Hobbes]

No, you said this.

Sure sounds like you're saying all Travis fans are irrational thinkers.

Then I said

I never said at any point that YOU SPECIFICALLY made death threats. I never ACCUSED you of anything. Perhaps I should have put SOME in front of HER DETRACTORS, but I figured reading comprehensive on this board was higher then the 3rd grade or so. And to be clear, yes, I DID just call you an idiot there.

I also said that it's irrational to like a crappy book because you're a boba fett fanboy. The fact of the matter is the second someone says they dislike her writing you immediately bring up the death threats thing. If you want to discuss the merits of her work, please do.

However

Hey, if you can make sweeping generalties about Travis' fans, then I can do the same about her detractors.

Your sweeping generality would appear to be that all her detractors make death threats. Even those who don't read clone wars EU novels as a rule. And if you really don't think ALL Travis detractors are youtards making death threats, why do you always bring it up? If you're just a Boba loving Mando fanboy, why not just say so instead of constantly trying to use some idiots making death threats to paint everyone who ever didn't like her books in a negative light?

[Nukelavee]

Wait - you guys are actually getting into a pissing match about Star Wars novels?

[Jon AS]

On the WFHB side (it's probably heresy, but I like FB more than 40K) [...]

There was also a novel featuring Thanquol that was incredibly fun (but then again the Skaven are some of my favourites) mainly because literally every named character but two ended up dead. Chronic backstabbing is fun

Haven't really dared to venture into WHFB novels. Somehow I can take the setting even less seriously than 40k (and that's saying something), and none of them have gotten the kind of endorsement that at least some of the 40k ones got. Oh and the small pieces of stories that featured Skaven I've read over the years had them talking in a very annoying manner, I can't imagine reading a whole novel centred on a Skaven protagonist, wacky as the whole species may be.

[Seli]

Wait - you guys are actually getting into a pissing match about Star Wars novels?

It's not even about the novels anymore, but about the writers and the fans...

[Grack21]

I also said that it's irrational to like a crappy book because you're a boba fett fanboy. The fact of the matter is the second someone says they dislike her writing you immediately bring up the death threats thing. If you want to discuss the merits of her work, please do.

However

Your sweeping generality would appear to be that all her detractors make death threats. Even those who don't read clone wars EU novels as a rule. And if you really don't think ALL Travis detractors are youtards making death threats, why do you always bring it up? If you're just a Boba loving Mando fanboy, why not just say so instead of constantly trying to use some idiots making death threats to paint everyone who ever didn't like her books in a negative light?

Yes, that was my sweeping generality. Yours was that all her fans are stupid. I think you're either missing some of the sarcasm here, or English is possibly not your first language.

I bring up the death threat thing when people start bitching about the clone number, because that's what started the death threats. You can bitch about her defending of it all you want, fuck, I've never even read that short story, but she got the number of Lucas, and people REFUSED to believe that, and started the death threat thing, which I don't think was as small a matter as you seem to think it was. That's why I get twitchy when people start blaming that number on her. It also might help that from everything I've seen and from people I;ve talked to who have met her, she's a VERY nice person, and is very appreciative of her fans, to the point where she wrote the two guys from Penny Arcade in in a couple of cameos.

And this may be SHOCKING to you, but I actually don't like Obba Fett. I like her early commando work.

[Nukelavee]

hunh. i find the whole travis sub-topic very post modern.

[Spring Bass]

I understand that people had compelling evidence that it was insanely low, I'm saying Lucas was told and stuck to his number anyway. Her defense of it may have sucked balls, but it was Lucas who refused to change the number in anyway.

Did Lucas specifically refer to it as three million clones? Attack of the Clones had the Caminoans referring to "units" of clone troopers, but a production "unit" might not refer to an individual soldier. It could refer to a larger cohort of them, which would make more sense.

In other TFN news, the latest FotJ book, Ascension, is currently on track to be one of the lowest-rated novels ever by the reader community there. On a score of 1 to 10, Ascension currently rates 5,08 with 27 people having evaluated it. Ouch!

They really should retire the Movie Characters in the Post-ROTJ EU, and focus on some other characters. There have been a couple of attempts to do that, but the storyline is still dominated by the Movie Characters and their children (with grand- children now). The video games are exploring stories set in the Old Republic, so why can't we get more novels set there?

Or better yet, they ought to pull a DC and do alternate Post-ROTJ continuities. They already have the Infinities line of comics where they do "What If?" stories, so it wouldn't be a big step for them.

Hmmm, i've read the Drizzt books of course, the Dark Elf trilogy is, I think, probably the best of the bunch. The rest are hit-and-miss and then becomes horribly boring. (the first book, The Crystal Shard, is very interesting because it's clear that Drizzt wasn't supposed to be the protagonist originally...)

Crystal Shard isn't a great novel (and I'm not sure I would recommend it to potential Tie-In Readers), but I have a soft spot for it. It was the book that originally got me into fantasy, back in the 7th or 8th grade.

[Noroldis]

They really should retire the Movie Characters in the Post-ROTJ EU, and focus on some other characters. There have been a couple of attempts to do that, but the storyline is still dominated by the Movie Characters and their children (with grand- children now). The video games are exploring stories set in the Old Republic, so why can't we get more novels set there?

IIRC, novels featuring the Big Three (Han, Leia. Luke) tend to sell substantially better than those that do not, so I can understand why Bantam and later Del Rey chose to keep the Big Three active and central to the post-ROTJ storyline. Unfortunately, while Bantam did a decent job of creating a 'next generation' and adding new recurring characters to the storyline, Del Rey has IMO not only failed to do likewise, but they've been killing off/ignoring those Bantam created. So by Fate of the Jedi we get to see the Big Three in their sixties (maybe early seventies for Han) still kicking ass and taking names, while most of the rest of 'next generation' is reduced to minor roles, support for the Big Three, or just treading water.

Hopefully, The Old Republic will prove popular enough and bring enough new readers to the SW novel line that novels set in that period will finally break the cycle of "novels without the Big Three don't sell nearly as well as those that include them."

Or better yet, they ought to pull a DC and do alternate Post-ROTJ continuities. They already have the Infinities line of comics where they do "What If?" stories, so it wouldn't be a big step for them.

I'd pass on that. I've never been interested in paying real money for stories that aren't real in-universe.

[Spring Bass]

I'd pass on that. I've never been interested in paying real money for stories that aren't real in-universe.

Technically, none of it is supposed to be "real" in-universe, since the EU isn't canon.

[Werthead]

Technically, none of it is supposed to be "real" in-universe, since the EU isn't canon.

The EU is canon until George Lucas says it isn't. Recall that several characters, names and terms from the EU (including Coruscant itself) were carried on in the movies.

So far, almost remarkably, Lucas has ruled very little from the EU non-canon. Amusingly by default, though, one of those things is Traviss' depiction of the Mandalorians and their homeworld :) Pretty much everything else can be fanwanked away (even Zahn's somewhat erroneous - retrospectively - account of the Clone Wars in the Thrawn books).

[SkynJay]

The EU is canon until George Lucas says it isn't. Recall that several characters, names and terms from the EU (including Coruscant itself) were carried on in the movies.

So far, almost remarkably, Lucas has ruled very little from the EU non-canon. Amusingly by default, though, one of those things is Traviss' depiction of the Mandalorians and their homeworld :) Pretty much everything else can be fanwanked away (even Zahn's somewhat erroneous - retrospectively - account of the Clone Wars in the Thrawn books).

Which is a shame, because Zahn's is so much better. Clone Masters releasing hell on the galaxy? Hell ya!